I know so many Christians who don’t cherry pick, they just assume it’s true despite never having read it. I have, many times.
There is plenty of terrible messages in the New Testament.
Firstly he says not one jot of the old law (the Old Testament, and specifically the commandments) will change. So the idea that the new testaments erases the old is simply wrong.
Jesus also makes no condemnation of slavery at all, and this was actually picked up by the anti-abolitionists of the 17/18th century as an argument for slavery. Slavery is probably the greatest moral failure of civilisation, and someone held up to be a beacon of morality has to address this.
Jesus tells us to give no thought to the morrow. This spectacularly bad advice, thankfully not heeded by anyone with a savings account, pension, job or house.
There are numerous examples of Jesus encouraging people to abandon their jobs and families to follow his ministry. It should be remembered that at the time, a woman and children being abandoned by their husband would have been a death sentence. Even today it’s not a good idea to encourage that kind of devotional piety.
No biblical prophet did more to popularise the notion of hell than Jesus. The idea of infinite punishment for a finite (and probably trivial) crime, or even just things like blasphemy and idolatry, is one of the most horrific concepts in the bible, and it was Jesus who really pushed this.
The big one though is the whole nature of the Jesus story and the totally batshit implications of it. A infallible god can’t think of a way out of a situation of his own making, having cursed (again through his own failing) humanity with sin. So he decides to send down his son/himself in human form to be tortured and killed as in lieu of all sins, and all sins in the future.
I mean, what the actual fuck?
This also creates the logical problem that you can literally do whatever you want in life and as long as you repent and have faith in Jesus you’re fine. I mean, spend eighty year raping, murdering, stealing and whatever else, and just say sorry with your last breath.
Whereas I’m going to hell for the crime of being a good person who tries to be nice to other people, but doesn’t believe in God.
Nope, sorry. The New Testament isn’t lovely dovy and full of wonderful moral guidance. The Old Testament is horrific, but at least it wears its morality on its sleeve. The New Testament wears its horrors more lightly, but is ultimately more insidious in the nasty stuff it preaches. And while you’ll find a lot of Christians who wave away the Old Testament, the new is treated much more seriously.
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When someone says “hey, you;re doing it wrong. This is the way to do it” it’s a bit off to take issue with the things he didnt explicitly outlaw instead of just focusing on the message explicitly given.
I’m a bit lost.
Where does it condone those things?
Yes Jesus did say your are doing it wrong and he was here to show everyone how to do it right.
And the ‘right’ he was referring to was the law laid down in the Old Testament.
He was absolutely crystal clear on this.
If you want to focus of the message explicitly given, I’ve give examples in my post.
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Which ones? Slavery?
Ephesians 6:5-8 “Slaves, be obedient to your human masters with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ”
Also check out Colossians 3:22-24, 1 Timothy 6:1-2, and Titus 2:9-10.
Basically the message of the Old Testament is that God is absolutely fine with you keeping slaves. There are numerous examples of this.
Some people often claim the bible lays down rules around releasing slaves etc, but there is a lot of confusion regarding the difference between slavery and indebted servitude. A lot of the rules on indebted servitude relate to specific prohibitions on a Jew owning another Jew as a slave. God has nothing to say about slavery, other than at various points tell slaves they have to obey their masters and telling slave owners to go steady when beating them.
Not one in sight.
Exodous 21 gives you all the instructions on how to manage slaves too. But that can be ignored, like the commandments earlier in the same book……
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Isn’t the most famous slavery story in the bible about God guiding Moses to free the slaves from Egypt?
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His dad’s book blatantly supports the worst of human behaviour and specifically advocates quite a lot of it. Odd then that he didn’t correct this if it’s incorrect.
Famous yes, like that great guy Noah saving all the animals. Ignore god murdering millions because he didn’t like what he’d created.
I mentioned my brilliant vicar earlier (now sadly no longer with us).
He was obviously a religious man, but had very little time for the bible itself. He described the bible as a collection of Chinese whispers, stories passed down through generations, that twisted and turned with every retelling, politicised and adapted to suit human agendas.
He encouraged us to disregard the bible, think of it as imperfect allegory, and search ourselves for moral instruction.
One story I remember really well, was him explaining around advent one year that the virgin birth of Jesus was likely a human addition to the story decades after the fact, and the real Christmas miracle, the real magic of the story was not a supernatural myth, but the idea that a man, Joseph, with no reason to do do, chose to stand by and protect a young women who found herself pregnant when she would, according to the laws of the time, have been executed. I loved that interpretation.
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Ye the bible is an account of stories from
The time - or passed down years later. There is going to be some inaccuracy In it.
And along the way, he is instructed by god to kill the male children of the tribes he has vanquished, but spare the young females so they can be shared among the men for their enjoyment.
So there you have God explicitly endorsing the rape of children.
Sounds like a guy I would have loved to have met
It seems to me that for many religious believers, religion becomes a crutch. Since it’s tough to examine oneself critically why dont I just follow some book or teaching.
If a man gets so horny looking at a skimpily clad woman that his mind goes to rape then he follows some random teaching that demands that women cover up rather than facing up to the violence and entitlement within.
Also on the point of repentance vs karma. I can understand why it would be appealing that true repentance should wipe away ‘sins’. But as I’ve gotten older I’ve started to feel that all our bad decisions, hurts, regrets are like a memento mori. You’re supposed to feel burdened by them so that you remember that you’re part of a whole and that your actions impact everything around you as well. That you’re only human. I dont feel it is as important to feel unburdened as it is to learn to live and even thrive with the burdens.
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This reminds me of (at least the TV version) of Neil Gaiman’s Lucifer. The concept behind hell being that you are punishing yourself for what you deem yourself to be guilty for.
Belief in god isn’t my thing. But belief in a dude with a flaming pitchfork who tortures you for eternity for finite crimes really is a step into insanity IMHO.
And the same book (Exodus 21:7-11) sets out the rules and regulations that govern selling your daughter into slavery.
The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. 
Actually, according to תּוֹרָה (Torah, the Law, Dt 22:23-27), the young lady is only to be put to death if she was deflowered in the city. If the act happened in the field, the young lady was not to be punished because there was no-one to hear her cries and come to her rescue.
However, did your vicar friend happen to mention the penalty for impregnating a betrothed virgin, irrespective of where the act took place?
And who was it who impregnated the betrothed Mary?
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