Thanks for the answer.
That’s about how I see it too… so not all that much of a deterrent for Russia, unfortunately. Whatever the west does will inconvenience them, perhaps even sting them, but my take is all that will do is encourage a growing bond between Russia and China.
I expect Ukraine to put up something of a defence, and hopefully when Russia suffers casualties it will check them. But I fear they will just escalate.
I don’t know the details, but I do hope the west has armed Ukraine, such that they’ve got decent weaponry to hurt Russia when it invades. I hate that we are watching this live, and it doesn’t look like being averted.
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An absolutely amazing display of whataboutism and moral relativism going on from @Sithbare in here. Fantastic stuff.
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Not sure if you’re commending me or dissing me , Just wanted to show the hypocrisy around though.
It was a hard dis. Hypocrisy exists literally everywhere, but a statement like “US and their allies invade countries on false pretences (which have been proven to be false) and still don’t allow the same courtesy to others” is absolutely mental. One might also point out that black people in the US have been able to use the n-word whenever and wherever they like, but they don’t extend that same courtesy to white people.
Someone else mentioned it (maybe @Limiescouse?), but a bunch of wrongs don’t make a right, and defending Putin and Russia for their actions right now by pointing out that the US and others have committed atrocities in the past is complete nonsense and I think you know that.
Putin is stirring the shit hoping that China will back him, and if they do and this thing escalates, it will be very bad for everyone. Being honest, I’m mostly concerned about the Champion’s League final, or worse - the possibility of an outbreak of full-scale war while we’re leading the league with a good chance for the quad.
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China won’t back him. For all that’s said of China’s economic might (which is quite a lot) , their military strength isn’t quite up there … (just yet)… Also China and Russia have their own internal issues which have yet to be solved (which do include their border issues as well)
Both China and Russia do need each other though , that i’ll agree , but they are also competing against each other in various other areas for them to come together on an accord.
This would mean little more than NATO (and US) going with trying to flex their muscles , all the time ready to cut Ukraine through. None of their sanctions would really matter and Putin would take the gains. Any losses that he might incur with respect to sanctions etc are only short term and can easily be offset by the local demand for Gas etc. Also Putin still has other ex-soviet union puppet states wherein he can sell the excess oil etc too.
Good point, Covid messed up our Premier League winning season and now the the possibility war threatens this one. But I’m mostly concerned about a fucking big mushroom shaped cloud appearing in the sky, if this escalates.
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I’m not even trying to do that. It’s just that the US and their allies with their actions have rather shot themselves in the foot while trying to give a response to this. And them bending over and allowing Afghanistan to be taken over by the Taliban only reinforces that image.
You can’t deny that there’s a whole media propaganda which is in place by US and their allies.
For me , personally , I find the actions by the Russians reprehensible but I’ll be naïve to believe that there haven’t been provocations by NATO which have led to Putin to take this extreme step
Certainly puts this whole game into perspective.
fuck , the things that absolutely matter.
We beat covid the first time , we’ll beat the next world war the second.
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Again, you’re calling out things like propaganda, when Russia have been shown time and again to be a massive propaganda machine. Of course the US and UK and EU countries do it too, they all have their own interests.
And I’m not buying that Putin is merely acting on provocations from NATO. You’re memeing here, m8.
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The russians probably do propaganda within their country but that’s nothing compared to the propoganda that the US and allies do world wide…
I’ll leave you with this
Freak Kitchen HellFest Propaganda pie - YouTube
Ridiculous I know, but I will be pissed off if this thing isn’t contained, just when the reds are coming up the hill. And not the Russian reds. World War three my arse. Better not escalate.
We are winning the quadruple this season.
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Depends on what you mean by “Russia”. Putin does govern with an iron hand but even with dictators like that there is always a tipping point. One of the theories of how to rein in Putin is to get the major Oligarchs to turn on him due to the placement of international restrictions on their funds. The institution of the Magnitski Act was allegedly one of his most delicate times since he came back to power. Some form of combination of removing Russian Bank from the SWIFT system plus impounding internationally held money of those they can claim are government connected could be enough to put enough pressure on Putin at home to change course.
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My worry with this is that targeting his circle will kick the can further down the road. At best it removes Putin and sends Russia and its people even further backward, ripe for harvesting by the next guy. At worst it additionally builds a tension bubble that when it bursts, leads to an explosive (literally and potentially figuratively) dissemination of nuclear material. In terms of the next guy, is it a case of better the devil you know?
I thought that Germany’s approach of positively engaging Russia was foolhardy, because, well, a scorpion will sting you even when you’re trying to save it, but maybe it was the right approach. I guess Germany knowns only too well what can happen to a country and its people when bankrupt and faced with no positive choices. The sanctions can be targeted but it always trickles down to the people and as long as he can galvanise them in a us versus them mentality, he will be hard to shift.
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Russian regular forces have now officially moved into Donbas, as “peacekeeping”. The occupation there is now official after the insane security meeting and Putin’s speech afterwards. Full scale war will follow.
Earlier today, Naryshkin (!!!) proposed to "take over Ukraine " at the media theatre event. Putin of course said no, it’s too early for that. We are witnessing an atrocity and murder of the Ukrainian state.
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I am furious and sad. I am going to stay home tomorrow. Will return with some updates then. Now I am going to cool off some steam and frustration with Pathfinder-WotR. Will read up on the events before I go to sleep instead. I need some time out from this absolute horror show.
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Sanction details from Guardian live blog:
The package has yet to be made public but it would involve a block on exports of key electrical components on which Russia is reliant, potentially an import ban on Russian oil and gas, and the freezing of assets of individuals and companies affiliated to the government in Moscow.
