“Whether we like it or not, people want to see a bit of gratitude,” Wallace said at a briefing in the margins of the Nato summit in the Lithuanian capital, Vilnius, when asked about the Ukrainian president’s comments that it was “absurd” for Kyiv to be told it would be welcome in the alliance but not given a date or exact conditions.
“Sometimes you are asking countries to give up their own stocks [of weapons],” Wallace said. “Sometimes you have to persuade lawmakers on the [Capitol] Hill in America.”
Arrgh. This war is costing only Dollars, Pounds and Euros for the West to fight a proxy war against a foe they are desperate to reduce. For Ukraine, they are paying for it through blood from tens of thousands of men, women and children.
NATO is about delivering security in the region, which means helping smaller states against larger aggressors that never asked for war. Countries shouldn’t be in it for thank yous and pats on the back.
let’s put the cards on the table now. money does not grow on trees in most countries. “The West” doesn’t have huge oil reserves which are being leveraged against the war chest.
The billions of dollars of armaments and munitions and vehicles being shipped over are being paid for our of civilian tax coffers (regardless of which branch of the government it comes from).
I have no doubt that this is being taken out of context of conversation, and it does sound a bit cold of Wallace to say something like this. But the optics of shipping billions of dollars overseas when there is such a disparity of wealth is something else.
You don’t realise how closely you’re describing NATO’s expansion almost to come to the borders of Russia do you? The west has been piling more and more pressure on Russia, and this is the result. No nation will tolerate risk to its sovereignty, especially not a former superpower like Russia. Just look at what USA did to Cuba when it realised it was tying itself closely to Russia.
Putin had shown multiple times that he’s willing to negotiate. Twice during the Minsk agreements, which for some reason were never implemented, and then also just before Russian invasion began. He had tried to get security guarantees, but he was flat out rejected. No negotiations happened, and again you have to ask the question why.
I think if you live in Europe, you have to take a long hard look at what your government is doing. Are you willing to become a participant in US’s proxy war? Because that is what this is. America would be perfectly happy to see the Europeans fight the Russians and take out, or severely weaken a threat that it has been paranoid over for too long now. And this is mostly likely because it does not want China and Russia linking up against it, but this very action of starting a war has pretty much aligned Russia and China.
I do see hope that Europe will resist US pressure though. France, and to a lesser extent Germany have been opposed to escalating the war. This latest comment from the British defence secretary perhaps suggests a starting of change of stance there too? (although I doubt it)
last time I checked, sovereign countries were able to decide their own fate.
Not to have another countries’ will imposed on them.
Take a hard look at the last 40 years of what’s happened in Eastern Europe with the fall of communism and realize it’s the will of the people. East Germany fell, Czechoslovakia fell, Yugoslavia fell, USSR fell. 15+ new soveriegn states created in the old Eastern Bloc in the last four decades and many of those countries are still struggling to survive. but as technology spreads to these countries and the young people see what the rest of the world looks like, western culture looks a hell of a lot more appetizing than the Iron Curtain. the oligarchy of the few rich and powerful in Russia is failing
No, it’s not. Russian nationalism, revanchism deeply embedded in the Kreml and broadcasted in one dimensional propaganda to the Russian people is. This is about restoring Empire and hegemony, and unlike you, Russian sources state that honestly. There is a bloody large pattern unless you are blind or stupid or completely indoctrinated on brain dead sources.
This is a lie or you don’t know better. Russia was not at any point in time interested in restoring control of state borders to Ukraine. There was no serious negotiation or any willingness , at all, by Russia to negotiate prior the invasion when Ukraine was begging them to do so. Russia wanted only to negotiate with the US without Ukraine, treating Ukraine as mere US satelite. Russia’s demands were insane and completely prepostrious, among them was the Baltic states stop being NATO members and more outrageous demands designed only to create the most flimsy of Casus Belli’s when the West obviously could negotiate nothing of it. It was only for domestic consumption and unless you are Russian, for the consumption of uesless tankies that do not understand propaganda and cannot filter information.
The idea that Russia wanted security guarantees is ludicrous and that this was what it’s about is ludicrous since it is a nuclear power with a large army, and no one in the West had even thougth the thougth of invading Russia.
It’s not a US proxy war (…). It is in Europe’s greatest interest that Russia does not succeed in it’s invasion and subjugate Ukraine. There is a reason why Sweden and Finland responded in shock and abandoned neutrality and wanted to join NATO; and you don’t seem to understand anything of this at all. There is no greater European security interest that exists today (making sure Russia does not win).
It is ludicrous (…) to call it a US proxy war, when the invasion was by Russia and completely unprovoked and fabricated by a series of completely retarded Casus Belli’s that Russia later abandoned in their spin ebcause they too understood that the biolabs and dirty bomb stories and their silly false flags prior to the invasion; was to dumb to run with for any lenght of time. But not for you it seems.
The irony that you can even write this. (…)
Of course it should be doubted since it has nothing to do with it, which everyone else understands. It was about the wisdom of Zelensky pressuring NATO too much verbally in public and how it can be diplomatically problematic if Ukraine wants continued support, which it of course needs. (…)
Magnus, I actually agree with you on this almost entirely. But tone down the outrage. The simple fact of the matter is that a large percentage of the world’s population is seeing this conflict in broadly the terms that Artrain is here. Leaping to anger and a hostile tone doesn’t do much to help people shift their perspective.
Fair, I am not going to debate this further and if I do, I will choose a less hostile rethoric. I just find what he/she writes utterly infuriating and loathe the spin.
Frankly, a great deal of effort has been expended by Russian and Chinese information and intelligence services to spread many elements of that point of view. It has some traction in the West, we should not be surprised at the need to confront it elsewhere.
If I’m reading the situation correctly, it’s as if Russia has realized they cannot annex the Luhansk and Donetsk regions directly. so instead, they’ve encouraged local puppet government officials to proclaim independence from Ukraine so they can control them indirectly. much like Belarus, a pro-russian yet “independent” state that has Russian nukes on their “sovereign” soil.
As for Azerbaijan/Armenia conflict… jury is out on that one but I suspect that Azerbaijan is just another puppet state. Azerbaijan media is already forecasting weather on their national news service for Armenian cities under Azerbaijan names. sound familiar, Vladimir?
You are right. It’s just so tedious to even begin to argue this in points in a very civil manner since I am all too used to the recipient not at all being actually interested in information for ideological reasons.
But you are right concering the information warfare going around of course. I need to work on my temperance
Actually, I think I am just going to go out and enjoy the evening since the sun just popped out after a rainy day with lightning (we’ve had fantastic summer weather for many weeks in a row, which was always almost suspicious, and now we’ve had some rainy days).
but Nato’s expansion to the borders of Russia wasnt due to NATO inviting these countries to join,
it was more like these countries bordering Russia asking NATO if they join.
there was a reason they felt safer within the NATO alliance than been a country all alone bordering Russia.
The Donbas and Luhansk independent movements or Russian secession movements whichever way people want to refer to them as existed for quite a while. Minsk agreements were violated as well (by both the parties , I don’t want to get into the “who violated the agreements more”)
All my sympathies with people from Ukraine but there is increasing war fatigue and the countries supplying aid to Ukraine will be hardpressed to increasingly justify the spend on foreign armed aid given the poor track record of NATO in the past as well as the increasing burden it plays on civilians.
I entirely see Europe being economically devastated as a result of this war should it continue much further.
