Major work needed on the defence in the summer if we want to compete next season. No clean sheet in the PL at Anfield since December says everything, 9 clean sheets all season is fucking terrible given the personnel we have at the back (Alisson included). Lack of a world-class defensive mid doesn’t help but some of our defending has been fucking dismal.
Problem as I see it is we have 2 players who are 1st choice in their positions but don’t want to get their hands dirty. Trent and VVD. Trent is defensively poor and looks like he has no interest being there and VVD has adopted this passive style for most of the season where he doesn’t want to physically engage with opposition players.
Trent is a lost cause and if we start the season with him at RB it will cost us goals and points, simple as that. Bradley has to get the shirt and it’s up to the new manager to accommodate Trent elsewhere.
VVD needs to get back to the basics of what made him the best CB in the world. I’d like to see the new manager bring another CB in and wouldn’t be surprised to see Joe Gomez move on. Konate could well find himself 4th choice if he’s not careful.
All in all it’s a real cause for concern, we have become far too easy to score against again and the fact we have 4 less clean sheets than Everton is a fucking joke.
IF we’d beaten Palace, Everton and West Ham, the most recent post in this thread would still be 4th April.
That 2 week period in April will go down as the worst fortnight in the reign of Klopp, where a season offering so much ended up giving so little.
The defence is a minor denominator in the shitshow which unravelled.
You can bet that Slot will not start his Liverpool process in mind in the next days/weeks with “oh, so Tsimikas a 3rd choice LB, what do I do with him”.
It’s not set in stone now that Gomez is ahead of him at LB. That was for a period in the second part of this season. Things can reset and change again, go back to “normal” if you like.
Anyway, I’m fine if we go into the new season with 9 defenders (especially if among those 9 you have a younger player or two) instead of 8. Now, it’s only clear that we’re getting a CB and Matip is obviously leaving. But there could be another departure, either a sale or on loan.
We’ll see if something else happens.
Slot doesn’t have to think anything, he’s not the only one in charge of the squad. Tsimikas is very clearly upgradable - hes not a good player.
Do we want to get better or not? I’m confused by the refusal to believe we can move on at LB. Tsimikas was terrible this season - and hasn’t been very good before that either - Robertson is getting on a bit (and wasn’t great either) while Gomez played alright for most of the season but is a stand in at best. Lets get a long term option sorted.
Of course we could just keep them and then be frustrated next season when Tsimikas comes in and plays like crap again.
Of course he has to think, he’s part of the decision makers what our squad will look like.
Of course Tsimikas is upgradable, nobody is saying the opposite. I’m just saying that it’s not set in stone now that Gomez is ahead of him at LB.
Tsimi needed a few games to catch rhythm and form when he got in this season, but then had some quality games before getting injured. So far in his time here, I was really satisfied with the two LB’s we had. Some of clubs of our level don’t have that situation.
Whether we do get that defender that can play CB and LB for the first time in… who knows how long (or for the first time ever, maybe Emlyn Hughes was one?), we’ll see.
It’s linked to what we judge needs to happen at CB also. Which is where I think we have a bigger need for an upgrade (upgrading the team immediately upgrades the squad also), the actual partner to Virgil, rather than Virgil’s and Robbo’s backup (or competition).
It’s possible that we would move Virgil to RCB, although I’m not really expecting it. At least until I see it.
The trouble with Tsimikas is that he plays one position. That isn’t good for a back up. I had hoped at some point, given he is pretty two footed, Klopp might have a look at him on the right, but that never happened.
And when he does play for Robbo you really see the drop off.
On the other hand, Gomez is a much better footballer, can play a handful of positions, is still young, and homegrown.
I also don’t know where the nonsense about him being a shit CB have come from. He was our starting CB for a lot of the title season, and it was only doing his ACL the following year that disrupted that. He has barely played CB this year and we’ve still had a shaky back line, so maybe the issue is more systemic than personnel?
The stuff about him being a shit CB comes from him being shit at CB for the 2 seasons prior to this one. He hasn’t played CB this year because he was crap there last year. Yes he was excellent at CB in 2019/2020, I was probably his biggest advocate, but that’s 5 seasons ago.
I’m not someone who wants 26 year old squad fillers. Move those guys on. Your older players should be starter level or part of a strong rotation (ie. The midfield will usually be several players who are a little more experienced and not always starters because they rotate heavily). Gomez finds himself now at 26, the peak of his career, playing squad filler behind two RBs and covering LB because the backup there isn’t very good. Sure he can stay and it doesn’t disrupt anything but why not be aggressive and look to get better? If we sign a new young LB and a starting calibre CB then bith Gomez and Tsimikas become, at best, 3rd choice in their preferred roles. We have missed out on several players who are starting for our rivals in recent years because we’ve been a bit too cautious in the market and thought too highly of our squad players.
@Zoran I agree Slot will be part of the decision making process but the point of having Sporting Directors is to take a longer term view. Slot probably doesn’t currently have any view on the relative quality of Tsimikas - he’ll likely need a pre-season to figure out if he wants to keep him - well Edwards has been aware of him for much longer and Hughes probably knows him from at least a statistical level too. If they decide we can get a better, long term, future starter and it pushes Tsimikas down/out of the rotation then they’ll do it regardless of what Slot may or may not have eventually thought about Kostas.
From my perspective, having watched lots of both, they are both just squad fillers. They’ll never earn or realistically strongly challenge the first team starter in their position. There is a big opportunity to move on now that we have a new manager, who owes no one any loyalty, and find players who will do what they can’t.
I admire the loyalty Klopp showed his players and it made sense when it came to first team level players who were just going through dips in form, but he clung on to squad fillers for too long in my opinion. When we are apparently competing against teams like Man City every season we have to be absolutely ruthless in squad building. Keeping guys around because they can give you a 7/10 when they get a nice run in the team just won’t cut it.
I’m not sure it’s fair to describe Tsimi and Gomez together. Joe is a far better player and a far better deputy. I would have no fear with him starting anywhere in defence. Tsimi seems a great character, but sadly just not good enough IMO, even as 2nd or 3rd choice LB
Slot will certainly have his say around squad building. He’s the one coaching, picking the team, etc.
I’m up for solving what needs solving first. Or focusing on it and solving a few other things as well, if we can.
For me, there’s a bigger need for upgrading or at least getting more competition for someone like Konate, for the starting XI. More than having a more versatile backup for Virgil and Robbo. Or potentially that player, what, starting at LCB, moving Virgil to RCB and also backuping Robbo?
What is genuinely more important? Pretty simple to me.
I don’t want us to be in a situation where we rely on Konate, in whichever form, like “if he’s fit, he’s an automatic choice”. It’s been 3 years now and we have more than enough sample of his qualities, weaknesses and availability so far (and he’s not old).
Definitely good enough to be part of this club going forward, but you naturally want more quality around, before it’s “too late” and we also need to replace Virgil. Quansah has been a decent addition, but we also need to add more quality.
I understand it if we could quickly replace Tsimikas with a more versatile player, but I really don’t mind if we have one or two defenders (and lefties at that) that play one position. And that also has layers these days, whether you play more inside or outside.
It would be brilliant to have 8 defenders who can all play 2-3 positions, but it’s not only about versatility, it’s also about quality and style.
Tsimikas got a new contract last autumn, though that doesn’t block us from selling him this summer, if it happens.
Generally, I don’t think he will takeover from Robbo long term and he might leave in one of the next windows.
But now, I know where I think we should be aiming for upgrades.
Central defender, winger, probable defensive midfielder, left back.
Four signings needed, hopefully all top class and not prospects. And we don’t know the outgoing yet either, apart from the obvious ones, so we might need to adjust.
You seem to be talking about getting one player to cover LB and CB? I’m talking about two new players. A starting CB - with Konate and Quansah the backups - and a young high potential LB to push Robertson. I don’t care about the LB being able to play CB if we feel it is a player who could eventually be the day-in, day-out starter at LB.
In fact what you describe here… “It would be brilliant to have 8 defenders who can all play 2-3 positions, but it’s not only about versatility, it’s also about quality and style.” Is exactly my view on Gomez. It’s great he can play multiple positions but he doesn’t have the quality or style to play at the level of a starter in any of them so, to me, we have been given a chance by the emergence of Bradley to move on from these versatile but limited players and start looking beyond our aging starter for players who can eventually stand a chance to usurp them.
Yeah, that’s what I understood many people want.
The reports last summer were that we were looking for more of a left sided defender. We’ll see what they in coming weeks, but it could be the same target. Tsimikas signed a new contract since then, but like I said, it’s no guarantee that he’s staying at all costs.
I wonder if nothing changes in the starting XI if that happens, or perhaps Virgil gets moved to RCB. This is what I’m wondering all the time. Especially since Quansah has proved this season to be comfortable at LCB (and for me, even better than at RCB).
Apologies if I didn’t realize earlier that you specifically would like two new defenders, not one left sided who would cover both at LCB and LB.
For me, the priority would be to get a quality CB. Into direct competition with Konate and potentially also influence the future when we have to replace Virgil.
Then, I don’t mind if we have Tsimikas for one more season or whatever. If it happens that there’s willingness to part ways and we have a nice opportunity on the market for a higher potential LB (I take it that you don’t think Chambers or Scanlon’s ceiling is for us?), who could replace Robbo one day, why not.
I think Slot will like more or less what we have in defence, personnel wise. Two options at RB, two options at LB. Someone of Virgil’s stature centrally and a few others. Young, in best years, versatile. One likely to be signed. Good mixture of experience and youth.
About a month ago I suggested that Slot would have some important things to address this summer and I was squashed.
This thread alone makes me think I had a point.
Before the United cup game the squad was top class, capable of challenging on all fronts next season. 5 great attackers, midfield was sorted for years to come, defence was sound and there was an abundance of talent coming through the ranks to supplement it all.
Fast forward 2 months and it’s all gone to shit. Diaz produces nowt, Nunez couldn’t hit a cow’s arse with a banjo, Salah is finished, Gakpo is average, Endo’s been found out, Szloboslai is shite, Gravenberch ineffective, Jones has one good game in five, Elliott is only any good off the bench, Konate is injury and mistake-prone, VVD and Trent don’t want to defend and Tsimikas is garbage.
The truth is somewhere in between. There are question marks over several players who have been nailed-on starters when fit over the past 4-5 years. Maybe they’re worn out, lacking motivation, carrying injuries or there’s been stuff going on we’re not privy to.
When we won the CL and PL the first 11 more or less picked itself. I’d say right now there are no more than 7 of the squad who could consider themselves guaranteed starters.
So often the case.
I think we are closer to being a title challenging outfit than one in serious need of surgery. We are about to finish third in the Prem and were in it until just a few games to go.
Yes, Slot will shape it, as any new man would. But I don’t think it will be too drastic. The bulk of it is right there - talent, versatility, good age.
I will be surprised if it needs more than four first team squad signings.
Four first teamers is a pretty major overhaul.
I hear you. Four might be seen as quite a lot. I’ve said the four positions I think we need, and at that point, I would hope two of them go into our first 11 (as much as there is such a thing) and two upgrade the level of the squad.
It would be 4/24 first team squad players.
Not necessarily something you would do every year, but I do think the new manager will have slightly more latitude than normal to put his own stamp on it as he begins.
Especially on the back of a side that made 4 new signings last summer, plus Cody at midseason the year before. Not to mention the influx from the academy.
Maybe we should open up a thread - or comment in the ones we have already, lol, about how many summer signings we will make.
By that, we should add the definition ‘first team squad’ signings, as we should always be in the market for a smattering of talented youngsters who we hope will make the grade.
I’m trying to decide between 3 and 4, as I don’t know the quality of the young left backs we have at the club who might have a genuine shot at replacing Robbo in time. I don’t think Tsimikas will be that man.
Central defender
Midfielder
Winger
Left back (maybe)