The Central Midfield Thread

Fair comment. Grav isn’t having a good season. Last year he seemed to really find his groove with being a defensive midfielder. He should have built on that and worked hard to make himself indispensable in the position this time around.

It looks like Slot has given him more license to roam, and it has been a factor - not the only one, in us losing the solidity we enjoyed last season. And after being really impressed with the midfield last season, most fans would say we now need to add a midfielder in the summer, along with a winger and central defender.

Thought I’d put in my two pence.

Central midfield? Most other teams seem to have one so I think we should get one as well.

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I thought we solved that problem in 2023, no?

:see_no_evil_monkey:

On Gravenberch though, it doesn’t really work like that: just be the defensive midfielder you were last season and don’t bother about going forward. You cannot “hide” players in such pivotal positions through the spine.

In today’s game, teams try to get little advantages even from bloody full backs, let alone regular starting midfielders. You need to be able to do a bunch of things. Look at the world’s best midfielders and midfields. It’s not divided in “you win the ball back”, “you make us play”, “you score from midfield”. That’s from ages ago. All of them need to do at least a bit of everything.

If Gravenberch can add to us in both directions because it’s his natural skills, then he should have the freedom to do it. As long as the balance is right I don’t see him playing that different to last season. But the balance this season wasn’t right for a long enough time to lose the title (and who knows what other damage this season could bring).

In that pan of different midfield skills, yeah, it seems like we don’t have a particularly high quality passer from deep. Especially for the kind of football we want to play (and it might not be totally linked to Slot, because even if someone like Xabi takes over, he might have the same problems and wishes).

Dom has been the only one who’s performed to expectations (and beyond) this season. Macca turns slower than an 18 wheeler and despite his own claims there is no way he’s fit, must be carrying some sort of injury that we’ll probably only find out about in the summer. Gravenberch looks half the player he was last season and has reverted back to what we saw in the first season, a bits and pieces player that seemingly has no idea what he’s supposed to be doing on the pitch. Jones escapes criticism because he’s on the outside looking in most of the time, but he was absolutely terrible on Sunday and has had an underwhelming season to date, you’d hope at 25 this would be his moment to grab that midfield spot and make it his own but alas it still remains to be seen whether he can push himself on another level.

Hopefully in the summer it’s not a case of us needing another major overhaul, but finding the right player who can come in and get everything functioning properly again.

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I don’t think there is one player who could do that.

Whoever is our head coach next season, we do have different work to do. Training this squad, making it better prepared in pre-season in multiple phases of the game and obviously transfers in/out.

It’s not really a position I thought we’d find ourselves in as we won the title last year and first transfer links seemed pretty positive to me.

We managed to create more question marks than you’d want, coming from such a strong position (albeit yes, going for more changes than some thought and “forced” to do one more because of Jota’s tragedy).

None of our present midfield can slow the opposition down. This has to be looked into!

I think one player of the right profile can make a world of difference. It won’t matter though, as you say, without working it out on the training ground.

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Digging up this thread.

It’s the most interesting area for me, maybe together with the goalkeeper position, in terms of seeing what type of player Iraola will go for, be it in this window or another.

I’m not sure if we can read anything from which players he mainly used in midfield at Bournemouth: Lewis Cook, Ryan Christie, Tyler Adams, Alex Scott. The first two were already at the club before Iraola arrived, Adams and Scott were bought his first summer there.

Then last season they also bought Alex Toth, a young player from Hungary. I’ve never seen him play, so I had a look at a youtube video, just to get an impression of the player type. Ball carrying and set piece delivery was the most highlighted bits.

The one thing they all seem to have in common is mobility; covering ground relatively quickly, a pretty big work radius, high frequency players if you will; and all being good technical players, without really being expert passers or types that put their foot on the ball and control the tempo of a game. Lewis Cook being the possible exception, not sure about that.

I think Scott was predominantly a more attack minded player when he came to Bournemouth; I’m sure I’ve read he said himself he had to learn the defensive work to play in midfield in the PL - somewhat similarly to Jones under Klopp. Christie was apparently more of a winger/attacking midfielder, before Iraola started using him deeper.

There’s a big difference in circumstances between Bournemouth and Liverpool. That’s one factor that makes it tricky, at least for me, to guess what sort of midfielders he might be looking for. If it translates to the requirements at a top club, or if he thinks differently about some things now that he can buy the best players.

Pressing will probably always be a non-negotiable for him, but I don’t think his defensive scheme requires individual pressing machines, it’s more about the coordinated press. Which will take time to get right. Of course, when it comes to defending big spaces, like a counter attack, it helps having Gravenberch instead of Mac Allister. But I think in a compact shape, centre backs pushing up into midfield to sometimes be the third midfielder - covering the typical DM space - I think it’ll be more about the collective actions than needing a specific type of midfielder to cover that space by himself, because he’ll often be higher up anyway.

Another thing is if what we’re seeing so far is the universal approach, or if we’ll see something different in away games. What are the non-negotiables about his approach, and what are the variables depending on circumstances like opposition and game scenario?

I don’t know if this is a false memory, but I think I read something Iraola once said after an away game, I think it was Man City, where he had tried a more controlled/passive approach that backfired, and he told one of his assistants he’d never do that again.

I’m basically just asking a bunch of questions here. I don’t have any preferences when it comes to the player types in midfield, it’s just about trying to read the room: What we think Iraola wants to do, what we think he’s got, what we think he might want.

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It will be fascinating to see how it unfolds with the midfield. At the least I’m sure we will be tighter than last season, as a unit. There were huge gaps and teams just went right through us.

I’m not sure if Iraola will want to emphasize a signing like Wharton, who is all about the passing, or more of an all-rounder like, say, Camara, who has a bit more bite about him too?

Can’t wait to see what happens. In some ways it would not surprise me if we stick with the current midfield for the season while we all find out what’s what.

Is fascinating.

As you suggest, whether he will go for exactly the same setup he had at Bournemouth, evolve it or change a lot given the nature of being at LFC and the resources or expectations.

Jones has gone so either way, I´d expect a midfielder in this year or next and we can see what type of player it is and it gives us an insight into what he wants.

I thonk the controlled possession game was mentioned by Dyche v Everton and Everton beat them 3 - 0, the next game Iraola changed it back and thumped Everton

Should be accessible to read without a subscription.

Posting it here to keep the thread going, seems like it’s maybe the most discussed topic when it comes to what people think could or should be solved with signings.

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I don´t think any manager would say it´s JUST personnel.

Kinda making themselves obsolete if they say that :smiley:

Although him saying ´just´ suggests it´s at least part of the problem.

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You are truly hilarious.
He’s telling you that it’s a tactical organization issue.

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Did you even read what I said?

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The gaps were smaller but Newcastle went right through us anyway last evening.

@koptician

It could be interesting and still allow Mac to get into the box as he likes, while Nyoni sits. Or Mac/Nyoni and one of the other two.

Ultimately I think there is very little standing between Nyoni and getting an opportunity. He performs a role we are lacking and the senior midfielders aren´´t making the position their own.

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Hopefully Andoni is waiting on Macca to get his fitness back before doing this.

Grav did a job in the title winning season but for whatever reason he simply cannot play the 6 position any more.

I think it will take care of itself; if they don’t get what they want from Gravenberch and Szoboszlai, someone else will probably get the chance.

I also think it’ll be very interesting to see what happens when Ekitike comes back, how things look by then in terms of that central balance between the forwards and the midfielders. By then there’s a good chance at least the collective defensive work is at a high level, they’ll have had plenty of games to ‘gather information’, as I hear managers like to say, and make their adjustments.

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