Only when we lost the ball in bizarre places. Both goals came from us losing the ball on the edge of the opponent’s box, the 2nd of which bounced around a bit before landing at a Newcastle player’s feet. The 1st one Grav completely blew it by not shooting. The rest of the match I thought we were ok.
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I think the next key tactical issue is how he integrates Macca into central MF.
IMO he is the one true controller we have in MF
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That’s also an area of the pitch where it shouldn’t be a problem losing the ball, we should be protected by the players behind the ball. But nobody dealt with the space where Osula(?) received the ball. I’d be interested to know what Iraola thinks about that situation, apart from making sure we finish the attack. If he would have liked one of the CBs higher up to at least delay the ball-carrier, and go man v man at the back, or something else.
For the first goal, I mean.
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I think one of the interesting thing about yesterday’s game is these goals are precisely the situations that saw pressing sides start adopting the much maligned “inverted FB.”
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I think he was a bit misunderstood in his response to the first goal. He notedly said Grav should have scored, not that he should have shot, which I think is a bit of a flippant way of saying “you commit that far forward when that many players are already ahead of the ball and you’d better make it count or we’re in trouble.” It’s not that he made the wrong decision once he got into that position (he did, but that is an issue on attacking wastefulness not a defense problem per se), it’s that he needs to be more careful about the situations in which he decides to forward in the first place. The flip side is if we’re going to pair those two together and give Grav the licence to make these probing runs then Dom has to be pick and choose his times to get forward as well, because at present that is such a default for him, and understandably so given his natural game, it means any time Grav makes that run we’re exposed. That’s the balance Iraola was talking about us needing to find.
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Absolutely, great point. I think Guardiola’s Bayern was the first team I saw doing that.
One of those things that made so much sense when I saw it, but I would never have thought about it myself. I think that was back when the trend was largely about inside forwards and overlapping full backs, and then Guardiola flipped it around.
Maybe you just found the solution..!
Edit: talking about the inverted full back.
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Yeah in direct response to his Bayern side getting demolished in a virtuoso counter attacking performance by Real (I think it was the semis is first year at bayern).
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Well we had 3 midfielders then whereas it´s 2 and Wirtz (i know CAM is a midfielder but it´s not the same). We also don´t have an attack that can just get the ball and make magic, or a full back who could pass like any midfiedler. The job demanded on them is more.
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God, Kerkez messing around in centre midfield?
Uff I shudder to think 
Haha, I certainly wouldn’t want him there when we build the attacks 
Might have been more viable when we had Jones or Dom at RB
I really think to get what you want, we need to play three midfielders again and sacrifice Wirtz.
It isnt what I would do, but I think it would give what you are looking for.
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I’m not saying it’s what I’d do, I’m just asking questions, thinking out loud. I don’t have a preference, I’m just observing 
I think he was trying to say “if” Grav had scored we wouldn’t be talking about this. That he doesn’t want to take that instinct away from both he and Dom, but that we have to be more aware as a unit to the situation. Maybe that’s Frimpong or Kerkez noticing bot CM are in or near the box and they fall back and tuck in a bit. Maybe that is one of the CBs stepping up to take some of that space away. It’s clear Iraola doesn’t want a traditional 6. He wants his CM to join the attack. But he also wants all of the players on the pitch to have situational awareness and understand potential danger. That will come with time and time on the training ground. I wouldn’t say Grav should have scored there, but he damn well should have put his laces through it towards the goal. I am not even sure what he was trying to do. Very poor decision making.
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Oh I know. It´s a good point you raise. Definitely an issue.
I don´t know the answer either
Just think it will take 3 CMs to get that solidity, if we want to play Dom and Grav. I think they will need Mac or even Nyoni to sit there while they get forward,
This is where Wirtz causes an issue. It’s almost like a midfield 3 is in our DNA and we don’t know what to do with a traditional #10. I really want Wirtz to work- like really badly- but to do so will likely mean bringing in a different profile of CM. Not a traditional #6, but one more positionally aware and a better passer than what we have.
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Totally agree. In my view we need a proper ball playing midfielder behind him to bring him into the game regularly. Get it into him quickly whenever he is in space and play through him. I spent the summer saying we need that type of midfielder. I think Jones was the best at that and obviously he is gone.
Though I would like to see us try with Nyoni as he is a more progressive passer than the others. Otherwise maybe Mac would be better at it than Dom or Grav.
If we don´t want to commit to playing with a 10 and setting up in a way to play through him, we should sell Wirtz asap.
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Maybe, yes. But..say we attack down one side of the pitch, and then the full back on the other side plays it more conservatively. Or, our midfielders empty the midfield like on the first goal yesterday. That could be a trigger for a defender to keep an eye on that central space, be it a full back on the opposite side, or a CB, depending on how many players the opposition leave up front.
This would require a commitment from everyone to go man v man defensively, but I got the impression that’s what Iraola wants anyway, that he’s not requiring the spare man at the back like Slot did..?
I think we need to keep Dom in the team for various reasons. I’d like to see Trey in there with Dom. Trey has a tendency to sit/more positionally aware and is a much, much better passer than Grav. Grav is athletic and is very good on the turn, but he frustrates the hell out of me.
It can but might be better to have a midfielder whose main focus is protecting us while we attack and stopping them while they attack. Maybe Iraola will try have the defenders play more of an active role, as you say.
@The_Hermit I didnt see much chemistry between the two but I think it would be a better pair than Dom and Grav. Nyoni would sit while Dom gallavants forward without a care in the world. So we´d have more cover. Plus Nyoni is better at passing than either.
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I mentioned it in the game thread, but this piece by Michael Cox addresses exactly this and calls out the CBs being way too deep on the first one given the overall situation.
Essentially we have to smarter about “emptying” the midfield when we’re only playing 2, but we’re going to do it at times because our players are too good to ban it, and when it happens we need to be braver all over the pitch to plug the gaps.
I am a little concerned this is going to be beyond Virgil at this stage and we’re going to see him protecting himself with that deeper position that ultimately fucks us a fair few times this season leaving people asking questions about the mid that really isnt the right question.
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