So if I’ve got this right in midfield we have
Jordan’s muesli crumble crunch.
Fab’s fabulous biscuit.
Millie’s dunked rich tea.
Thiago’s already broken digestive.
Jone’s English Eccles cake.
Kieta’s flaky pastry.
Ox’s disolved beef stock.
and Elliot’s crooked short bread.
We’re doomed! 
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If that teenager was Jude Bellingham for £100 million a lot more people would be happy.
Elliot just might be as good, I reckon Klopp thinks so as he had faith in him at the start of the season.
The injury cost us more than we realise
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I disagree, Elliot was clearly earmarked to take most if not all of Gini’s minutes. He’s right up there with the Bellingham’s of this world in terms of ability… and the performances showed he has the dedication and hard work to keep him at that level.
The triangle he had already got established with Mo and Trent was sublime and a massive threat… it has been one of our problems, the other players playing that side bar Keita can’t naturally play in the same way.
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Do you think we will bring anyone in in January?
No.
Gini played the most minutes of all midfielders (or even players overall?) under Klopp.
Harvey Elliott played 4 times this season. Let’s not suddenly make him a footballing god because of a decent start.
Let’s not exaggerate. Gini did and would’ve still played a lot of football this season. Klopp was disappointed to lose him.
Yes, there is midfield evolution (which I was screaming for) and adding new layers, but there are also our principles, which we don’t change (and rightly so).
And I’m saying all those facts and high probabilities without thinking we’re necessarily f*cked without Gini. But let’s not pretend like Gini (I was not his biggest fan) was finished with us and that Harvey Elliott would now be both an automatic starter and provide the qualities Gini did.
We’re left with two automatic starters in Fabinho and Henderson. The third spot is down to all the others to figure their way of breaking and staying in the team. We probably put most of our hope into Thiago at LCM, Keita backing up, having Millie as a proven option in tricky games. Give Jones and Elliott as much as they merit. Since we couldn’t sell Ox, he was probably last on the list.
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Mate, it’s currently dark, cold and rainy at my place. When I read this post and then look out of the window, I feel like hanging myself from the next tree. 
Have a bit of pity for us Northerners who don’t live in your sunny Montenegro ffs… 
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I think the available money has gone into hugely improved contract renewals of our key players. Still Salah to go, hopefully there is enough left to bind him to the club too! 
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Elliott played more forward passes in those 4 matches than Wijnaldum “champion in playing the ball back- or sideways” in all the time he was with us. I take Elliott every day of the week and twice on Sundays over Mr. Wijnaldum and his often diapering act.
BTW, how is Wijnaldum doing with PSG … 
Elliott played Hendo’s position. Klopp tried the experiment with Hendo at LCM (the one Gini occupied) once, in that game against Chelsea. It wasn’t great. We don’t know yet how that would’ve developed. We might see when Elliott comes back and if he can stay in the side for longer periods.
Klopp will play a player with age irrelevant when he thinks they are ready. He’s done it all through his career - Reus, Gotze, Trent are all examples of this. He’d rather iron out the small amount of deficincies in their game in real games rather than on the training pitch. I’d say this is for only the truly special players.
Elliot was asked to go and prove his physicallity in the Championship, he did that with aplomb. He then returned and was ever present in pre-season, he then was starting in the Premiership.
So no, no overexaggeration here. He was clearly picking up minutes and if Jones hadn’t of got the concussion he would have been getting more minutes also. So yes both Jones and Elliot were (in my humble opinion) the ones ear marked to pick up the minutes Gini had been playing. That’s also why (in my humble opinion) why Klopp didn’t push hard to retain Gini, he had 2 young lads who he wanted to give minutes to and Gini moving on gave him the window for that.
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I think Klopp thought between all our midfielders they could share the Gini minutes between them and even Thiago was bought as a replacement 
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In theory there is nothing wrong whatsoever with our numbers in midfield even without Gini.
We play 3 per game we’ve got the numbers for 2 midfield diamonds.
A game of squad A versus squad B anyone?
Squad A;
Henderson at 6, Keita and Thiago at 8, Ox at 10.
Squad B;
Fabinho at 6, Milner and Jones at 8, Elliott at 10.
The problem isn’t the numbers it’s the unavailability of those in Squad A. We could literally take 3 of them away by selling them, let Milner move on/hang up his boots and only bring two solidly available options in to replace them and we’d be OK for numbers still for a 3 man midfield.
The problem wasn’t Gini moving on and not being replaced. Gini was the sticky tape over the problem. I wouldn’t have thought of Gini as one of the starters (although that is only opinion) if everyone was fit and available consistently. But due to the availability issues he played more than anyone else.
I’d say over the next two summers bring two “8s” in. One a bit more defensive with ability to play 6 the other a bit more offensive able to play a bit more like a 10. Move on Milner,Keita, Ox (all summer 2022) and (summer 2023 probably) one of Henderson or Thiago (always expected him to be with us a short time anyway) and bring one new CM in each window.
Bellingham would be the dream, but if it happens I think it’ll be 2023 and even then I’m not convinced but maybe the money will be made available as he’d be marked as a default starter and main guy in CM.
For 2022 I think an 8 who can be a bit more defensive would be best. Whether we can bring in a free bargain like Boubacar Kamara, a underappreciated bargain (with potential baggage) like Adrien Rabiot or an emerging talent from a lesser league like Ryan Gravenberch I think there are lots of options to bring some size, reasonable pace, athleticism, defensive solidity and still good ball playing skill into midfield.
I’d also continue to give Tyler Morton opportunities to develop and become an option. Maybe as Henderson fades into a more Milner style support role as he gets older and isn’t an ever present on the field anymore.
I don’t agree.
I don’t think the club didn’t push harder to keep Gini because of Curtis Jones and Harvey Elliott. Lower on some list, maybe yeah, but those were not the main reasons I don’t think. I think more the likes of Henderson and Fabinho were. And that we cannot give everyone in that similar age bracket new contracts and a vastly improved one for Gini, which he got at PSG. I think Klopp, footballing wise, was for keeping Gini, but the club (and I believe together with Klopp, there weren’t any rumours over a massive disagreement or something, so that would be speculation) decided that they can’t give him that and Gini decided he wants to leave.
Our main midfield trio since let’s say spring 2019 (when Fabinho finally consistently got his shit together and Hendo proved to Klopp he can still be an option “back” as an #8) was Fabinho, Hendo and Gini. I don’t think that would’ve lasted forever (obviously with their age altogether and looking for new layers), but I don’t have to act bitter about Gini or celebrate his problematic start at PSG to believe that he would still play a lot of football if he was still here. A lot of football.
Of course, even before that, and probably after 16/17 and the quality season Lallana had, we were always on the hunt for certain technical aspects in one of those two #8’s. You could even say that Hendo at single #6 was more of a temporary solution and then Klopp wanted Fabinho in 2018. In that summer we brought Fabinho, Keita and also wanted Fekir. Who knows what would’ve happened or what was planned. Jorginho was also a target.
Different players of course, but we tried it with Ox (I believe he had a strong chance of starting the Kiev final if he was fit, that was when Gini was still so-so, not the Gini of 2018-2021), Keita, Thiago, Jones, etc.
I agreed all the time that we needed to always see if we could add to that “hard working” group of Henderson, Fabinho, Gini and Millie… a player or players of different qualities. Not players who don’t do enough off the ball/defensively, obviously not. Klopp is non-negotiable on certain basics and level of defending. But players who can do that and also make us play smarter, able to control games more, make us more dangerous on the ball, etc. And then I don’t care (even with my personal taste), the rest is down to merit, who plays the most, who is an automatic starter, who isn’t, etc.
Still, Gini was always playing. Always (though not always in equally high form). And from 2018 onwards, his importance grew even more I think. Deep down I think it’s really Hendo who in the ideal world remained as Gini’s replacement And that we wanted the “3rd or other CM” to be a bit more adventurous. But Hendo plays RCM, not LCM (not saying he can’t, but he did once under Klopp in a 4-3-3). At LCM, we probably had Thiago in mind as the main “next layer” type of guy (but with his issues and age, probably not someone playing 50 games a season, but more like 35-40). So we could have the majority of our midfield trio still providing the basics and a new player who can elevate our game a bit more.
I know Elliott is young, fresh, promising, etc. I also know that we fans tend to jump on and celebrate these cases in no time. It’s so predictable though. The sound like Gini was always going to drop out of the side from the summer of 2021 and Harvey Elliott would be his replacement. I don’t think so. But the fact that I don’t think we’re f*cked without Gini is also why I’m not surprised that our midfield is still pretty damn good.
Objectivelly and not being his fan (I can perfectly put that aside, because ultimately what do I know and I just want Liverpool to be the best they can), I believe Gini would still start most games in this side this season. Perhaps not automatic and not all the time, but the likes of Jones and Elliott would probably steal more minutes from the likes of Thiago, Keita and Ox. Then the rest is a bonus, who knows.
That is all also linked with my previous and more general questions of our dynamic at both #8’s. Which is linked to the rest of the team, the slightly higher position/role of Salah on the right compared to Mane on the left. Our use of Trent vs Robbo. I thought that we would play our more technical CM’s at LCM and have anyone from our hardworking picks on the right to provide balance between Trent and Salah. That’s obviously not the case the majority of time. We do see that a number of these between the lines left footers now play as RCM. I understood our new dynamic on that right side with Trent playing more inside, Elliott at times almost acting as a RW to allow Salah to come inside even more. But it was still too few games for me to believe that it would’ve been our main midfield for the season.
What happens next, I don’t know. We’ll see when Elliott gets back fully fit, what is the context of our CM when he does, do we have another little change by that time. If not, what do we do between Hendo and Elliott at that spot, do we rotate it by periods of form, type of opponent, etc. I just don’t think that on the basis on those 4 appearances (actually only 3 starts) we have to think like he became an automatic starter and that Gini was always doomed because of him.
I will happily say that if Elliot recovers from his injury fully I expect him to nail down a starting spot by the end of the season and it’s not a case of him being fresh or new…
It’s a case that he is a top tier talent and one if playing elsewhere we’d be creaming ourself to sign. He is one of the best young players I’ve seen play for us in a long time. His level from day one in the first team massively exceeded my expectations, what he see’s on a pitch is better than most of our current midfielders.
p.s. I would have loved Gini to stay.
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Elliot’s too young to be a guaranteed starter. He’ll be too naturally inconsistent at his age, and the injury won’t help. He’s good enough to get a lot of minutes, but I don’t think it’s realistic for him to be playing every week.
Foden is probably the most talented English player since Rooney and he took a couple years longer to establish himself as a regular at City. That’s probably a similar sort of trajectory we can hope for.
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We’ve got 8 players for 3 spots. Even with 4 players out injured we still were able to have a player with 30+ england caps on the bench
Also save for Naby, Fab, and Elliot (40% of our midfield options). All this to replace a player who wasn’t even a midfielder under Klopp.
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Actually, I’m as Northerner as they come! 
I come from the northern part of Montenegro, it’s beautiful (unless you’re a fan of the seaside) but it will snow there pretty soon! But I love the autumns there, wish I could go there now but can’t because of job, family, fear of COVID (vaccine surely helped my immune system but it doesn’t alleviate the concerns in my head)… And then the lads drop two points to Brighton at home, how dare they! 
I do stand by what I said about the midfield - for about a year, there are always a few parts missing because of injuries and rivals naturally take advantage of that. It’s almost as though we’re being tested after two largely perfect years. They are overplayed because of various injury crises and international football, throw in a wild tackle or two on our players and the heart of the team is arhythmic all of a sudden. I can only hope the bad luck changes and these lads remain fit for long periods. Last time that happened, the team won the league.
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This could apply to most teams even City… Their depth beyond the initial 14/15 is very poor. Chelsea are a different beast due to their abuse of the loan markets.
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But Bellingham is more akin to the type of role Gini played and has a years worth of proving himself in the Bundesliga under his belt. Had we bought Bellingham in the summer and had Harvey then by god we’d be looking good but Harvey on his own isn’t a replacement for Gini.
I’m really excited by Harvey for sure but he isn’t doing what Gini was doing for us before and he’d not be able to play that level of minutes. And none of those we ear marked to fill that gap are able to stay fit long enough to do that either. Most of the time that doesn’t matter as we’re far better than most we come up against but we’ve lost some of that workman like quality that Gini brought that helped stabilise that area of the pitch for us. Losing Fabinho and Milner to injury compounds that and leaves Henderson an awful lot to do.
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