I always like the up, back, forward play or the go in to go out.
By that I mean a ball is passed forward to a players feet who the drops it back, normally on an angle, to then play a more progressive ball forwards, this is easy as the whole play is the in the field of vision of whoever plays the ball forward and the ball played back is great for players to time their movement.
Also, if that pass is to a forward coming to feet then he has created space in behind and players have the option to make runs into the space created.
The 2nd one is more if I want to create space wide, then the idea is to move the ball inside before going outside, especially works with overlapping full backs or again, if it is the centre forward playing the ball between the space and full back for the wide players.
Both can work in large or small spaces.
Robbo and Trent used to be great at overlapping when the ball is played inside, Robbo still does it but Trent not as much and when Bobby was prime Bobby he used to play both Mo & Sadio in all the time with them moving from out to in
The funny thing is, watch Arsenal they basically press just like we used toā¦ they key being their central defenders being able to play 1 v 1 and not go to pieces for oneā¦
This might sound strange to many people, but for me the problem is with Thiago, or more to the point th esort of player he is. Donāt get me wrong, Thiago is an incredible player and is a joy to watch, probably one of the more gifted central midfielders we had since Xavi Alonso. However, Kloppās system is based upon relentless counter press, players who sprint 90 minutes, and do it fast. win the ball high up the pitch, quick short pass to the front three. Initially, Klopp built his midfield around 3 players : Milner, Hendo, and Gini. None of them would ever be considered as an elegant midfileder, but all 3 could run forever. Milner was replaced by Fabinho and the midfield became even quicker.
Gini left, Hendo and Milner got old and slower. Keita who was supposed to replace Gini, never really lived up to the expectation, and in came Thiago who for all his talent is simply not that kind of player.
Thiago will keep looking good this season, probably the only midfielder who will, but the fact remain he was never the plaayer we needed.
Second, I agree and disagree. I agree Thiago isnāt in the mold of the āworkhorseā midfielder that was the heart of the old system. However, he was the stepping stone to evolve the team. This is evidenced by almost all of the players coming through - Jones, Elliot, even Morton and Bajcetic and so on. All are not particularly āengine onlyā players but rather all round football players.
I think currently we are stuck between the old and new - the plaster has to come of, it is too late to turn backā¦
Thiago is that kind of player. If weād dropped prime Thiago in there instead of prime Wijnaldum we still could have played that kind of football. Thiago wouldnāt have covered back as well as Wijnaldum but heās a better ball winner high up the pitch.
The team hasnāt changed because Thiago is the wrong sort of player, itās regressed because many of the individuals have regressed. We played great football last season when Thiago was fit, why wasnāt he a problem then?
That midfield 3 worked beautifully between 18-20 but youād think it is the only way to play football judging by those who want to lay it all at Thiagoās feet. Instead of blaming our best midfielder we should be looking at those who arenāt performing. Thatās Fabinho, Henderson, Elliot. Itās Keita by virtue of not being fit. Thiago is not the problem in midfield.
IN a way that is right, because if you compared last season, the 2 players who contributed the most to our great run in every single competition was Henderson and Fabinho. Thiago minutes were only around half of what Henderson did as far as Premier League is concerned. So its fair to say Thiago has alot more less influence of our great run last year compared to Hendo or even Fabinho. In fact, Thiago had around slightly more minutes than Keita and both of them played only as much as Hendo did last year in the league. So Thiago was not exactly fit if compared in that context. Playing in only 17 full games in terms of minutes is not exactly fit. To me, the problem we have in midfield cannot be taken in silo. It cannot be because only Hendo and Fabinho are the only problems. Because the midfield 3 were never a case of 1+1+1 equals 3. Our midfield 3 has always worked because the trio always worked so hard for each other and for other members in the squad, its almost like there were 4 or more in the midfield at any one time. So to me, its easy to blame it on Hendo and Fabinho, just because they played so well last season and its easy to hang them out as the only 2 to be blamed. Is there a drop in their performances? Its obvious. But we have to be careful to not again go into oh because this is such a great player, we should be grateful to have him so lets hold others accountable for what is supposed to be a machine and not singular parts. To me, I cannot see any player who can be absolved for our bad performances. We are almost trying to see oh Player A is the best because he rates a 5 while others rate a 4, so player A is beyond blame. 5 and 4 are lousy and that is how our players have been, all of them, either a 5 or 4 alot of matches this season. There will of course come a time where some players will not be able to keep up with the system anymore and they rightfully should rotate out of the team but that is a decision for Klopp to make
Of course, no player is perfect, that is why our midfield were so effective. Back then our midfield trio who won everything if we look at each player in silo would not get into alot of top sides but for very good reasons due to the tactics and coaching, the midfield were a extraordinary midfield made up of very ordinary players on paper. And Thiago came in and added another dimension that were not present in our previous midfield iterations. But its obvious he is different and that requires other players who can make up for what Thiago cannot do because obviously he is not Gini and to get the best out of Thiago, there is a need for the other players around him to make up for what he cannot do. That is why I said the problem is not singular players because the system that Klopp built was never built with a player like Thiago in the first place. This is not Thiagoās fault because we all can see what he can do and by the way, he is no slouch when it comes to being hardworking and tracking back, but its just that he is simply not the same as Gini. So to me, the problem has always been for Klopp and the coaching team to find that balance again that they managed to find when they put 3 ordinary players and managed to make them play like a superstar midfield.
ADDING ON: And that might mean replacing Hendo or Fabinho, by all means because new players with new skillsets might be needed but to me, it will not be because Fabinho or Hendo is bad, its just always finding the players who can give us the balance.
Does not mean the opinions do not agree with yours, is rubbish, if all we want is to call other people opinions rubbish, then there is nothing to discuss here. Who has any problem accommodating Thiago? But in doing so, it does not mean Hendo or Fabinho is lousy or any worse than Thiago in performances as a whole, the whole team is to be blame collectively. The only point I am making is that with Thiago in the side, Klopp has to fine tune, because Gini and Thiago is different. You talk about last year. Last year as I have said, Thiago play only half of what Hendo played, so to draw that parallel that Thiago is the same as Gini, is not right. Nobody is saying Thiago is not a great player, I am just against the other extreme of putting all the blame on Hendo and Fabinho for the bad midfield performances this season
I think you can see from the posts that I acknowledge the performances of both of them, there is no escape from that. But I also make a parallel to a machine. Alot of times, the malfunction of a certain part of a machine is not necessary wholly the fault of that particular part. If there are other parts that are not performing to a certain degree, other parts get worn out, even faster and worse. I am not defending Hendo and Fabinho as 2 individuals. I am making the point that our problem seems to be a problem of system and the parts that play in the system. From the very beginning, Klopp has put together a team that won not because of individual brilliance but a team of workers who work to form a heavy metal machine. So in a machine, its not always oh lets just replace this screw and you are sure everything will work, it goes deeper than that. I think I have explained myself and probably will just keep repeating myself. I donāt defend their performances but the problem we have goes beyond silo players and simply replacing them one for one, does not necessarily solve our problems.
We can pick apart every single player in our squad and I can guarantee we can find fault in every single one of them. But to pick on Thiago instead is fundamentally wrong like I said because individual players are not necessarily at fault.
The amount of untalented and limited dross we had to watch here over years and decades and Thiagoās strengths are both brilliant and our problem, bloody hell. Without him being 100% of himself and perfect/without mistakes, nobody is. Not only that, but heās even doing the dirty job better than our great workhorses lately.
Talk about āspoiled kidsā, yeah, wellā¦ unfortunately with time, some of us can get used to a certain level and it deranges the standard of expectation.
Personally I donāt understand the scale of the drop off. Itās just bizarre that you have 3 midfielders in Henderson, Fabinho and Thiago whose form has fallen off a cliff. The rest have also just become as affectual as a wet blanket.
