But the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines are MRNA messengers and is not the actual virus itself so while it might present positive results on a antibody serology test, it should not present positive results on a PCR test, isnt it? Of course with such a new virus and new vaccines, nothing can be sure of course until more data is available.
Not sure about that but we don’t yet have Moderna in the UK although it has been approved. This vaccine would have either been AZ or Pfizer. I’m a little surprised that the UK government hasn’t yet increased its orders of Pfizer. which as far as I know remains at 40 million doses.
It is rather remarkable that they’re only confirming this now. You would think that they would have trialed storing it at temperatures of around -18°C (and warmer) at the outset given what a huge logistical benefit that would have compared to needing -60 and colder storage systems.
I wonder how many countries did not order the Pfizer vaccine due to these issues and will now want to do so but find themselves at the back of the queue?
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How does that impact your refrigeration lorry fleet?
I know you were hunting down Matt Hanock on WhatsApp last time we discussed this.
I’ll have to cancel that order of liquid nitrogen I placed with a friend in Gibraltar who owns a bakery. Will probably involve writing off the £100m investment we got given by the government, mind. Thank fuck everyone involved knew that there was no chance we could deliver and ploughed it all into fast cars and holidays booked for July.
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They possibly relaxed their guard hence endangered other people. That’s one of the problems with vaccination people think they are safe and forget (and haven’t been well enough informed) that they can still endanger other people.
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If you get symptoms you should get tested, surely?
Is that scientifically proven? Normally, you shouldn’t be contagious anymore once you’ve got it or are vaccinated? That’s at least how it works with influenza or other viruses if I’m not misinformed.
At least what we hear in Singapore from official sources is that vaccination does not mean the virus is not in you. Its just that you are probably less likely to fall sick from it but you could still be carrying the virus, which means you could still pass the virus to another person who if not vaccinated, might be more likely to fall sick from it. That is why the narrative is that even with vaccination, life might not go back as normal that soon like no more masks etc because there will still be people who cannot be vaccinated that needs to be protected still.
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I visit Melbourne and Auckland a few times a year in my job previously, now that I am unemployed and not knowing when we can ever travel again, I will never take for granted beautiful places that we get the privilege to visit. Cannot wait to one day visit Melbourne and Tasmania and the South Island again…
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Vaccination is to protect the vaccinated and will protect others if 100% efficace but not entirely, even for the person vaccinated with one dose we are looking at, what? between 40 and 60% efficacity. That’s enough to protect from severe symptoms not enough to protect others from someone vaccinated who ‘catches’ the virus (they become carriers and a transmission vector).
Other more complicated examples with vaccination exist like early foot and mouth for sheep where vaccination caused increased problems.
In theory a vaccination protects the vaccinated. It’s not that they can not ‘catch’ the illness it’s that they can fight it with efficacity. Look at small pox the WHO had to scour the earth to vaccinate the last remaining unprotected persons.
Anyway that’s how I see and understand it, I mean how can someone’s immune system help anothers. If you catch the virus you become contagious after x days carrying it so yes if the immune system kills off the virus before that time period others around in theory will not catch it from the vaccinated, however this isn’t the case in this covid scenario and the 1 dose campaign.
Edit: @Hope.in.your.heart you asked if ‘it’ was scientifically proven.
Is much scientifically proven in medicine?
My point is medicine is not that scientific it’s still strongly rooted in philosophies and theories some of it’s history is very disturbing.
As for vaccines, immunity there have been massive advances mainly due to AIDS, however the fact that there has not been a major vaccinal break through since small pox indicates that perhaps many ideas on vaccines are incorrect.
What is evident is that some vaccines are efficace others are not as for immunity one only has to look at herpes (cold sores) 80% of the population is considered as ‘harbouring’ herpes, and are theoretically naturally immunised, yet 30% of the population manifestt symptoms and during the time they manifest those symptoms they are contagious (which is why 80% of the population 'have herpes). It’s not cut and dry.
You mentionned flu well that vaccine is generally only given at risk groups to protect them how can you then ‘scientifically’ prove anything from such a method?
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Actually it’s over 92% for Pfizer. It’s also just under 90% effective at preventing transmission as well.
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Now I see a news headline regarding infections of bird flu in humans…what more gee whiz.
Can’t be possible, we all died of CJD and bird flu 20 years ago.
The best way of thinking about the vaccine is as a primer. You are preparing your immune system to fight infection when you do come into contact with a virus. How well your body responds depends on the immune system of the individual. Vaccines therefore protect the individual, as your immune system has figured out how to fight it. Some immune systems (with the vaccine) might stop the virus dead in its tracks. Others their immune system will be a bit slower and they might develop symptoms (but not as bad as it would have been).
Either way vaccinated people are better at fighting the virus, that means the virus does not replicate as much (even in symptomatic people). This therefore reduces spread. Especially as there will be some kind of minimum viral threshold for the next person to become infected. Viral load is an important factor with this virus (see number of medical staff that have died).
So vaccines help both the individual and the spread. However controls though will remain in place for a while, as a vaccinated person can still pass on virus directly (which might be low-negligible for asymptomatic people). Also humans are great vectors for disease spread. Like the free peanuts in a bar, likely to have the piss of another person on them. 
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Read an article in the Wall Street Journal yesterday suggesting herd immunity will be reached by the end of April. You look at the way cases are falling all over the world, and it does seem this will be over soon.
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Whats the government support for any serious long term side effects or death of individuals by the vaccine?
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