I’m not bashing the EU without reason though. I’ll bash the UK just the same (as I have done). Posters were more than happy to engage when the UK were constantly fucking up (it still is, of course) but can’t seem to stand ANY criticism directed towards the EU. That’s pathetic.
And the majority of my posts in here recently have been due to a regular flow of misinformation being posted to somehow defend the indefensible. If it wasn’t for the EU propaganda merchants insisting on posting their own false testimony then I wouldn’t need to be countering those distortions with facts.
Can’t we all just criticise shitness, wherever it’s found, without people getting in a sulk?
The recent issues have illustrated fairly clearly some of fundamental issues I’ve had with the EU for some time. It’s somewhat satisfying to see my view validated so clearly, I accept. But I’d genuinely prefer it if both the UK and the EU tackled this horrible situation perfectly and collaboratively, where possible.
Maybe some people consider constantly dominating every discussion with huge volumes of googled articles to prove correctness is a bit shit and coming across as brow-beating.
The ‘oh god it’s pathetic’ reaction when pointed out that you might be putting some posters off says a lot.
I see it differently. I see a thread that has gone into every detail about every country.
Before late January this year, this thread was almost entirely how Trump and Johnson had fucked up the pandemic response. Various politicians comparing it to the flu, taking it on the chin. It moved onto PPE the overwhelming failure of the UK. The US effectively stealing PPE on runways. Turkey having to supply the UK. The horrible scenes in New York. The escalating death toll in the UK. We have discussed everything from “eat out to help out” to furloughing staff. The poor communication of UK and US leaders. The libertarian anti-mask wearers. Track and trace through to cronyism. Closing boarders and managed isolation through to the UK implementing Sweden’s herd immunity. From the actions of school ministers and exams through to Dyson and ventalators. From Cobra meetings to care homes.
Taken as a whole this thread (and the one that proceeded it on TIA) has overwhelmingly been critical of the US and the UK. We have discussed every detail. Every aspect. Its has been overwhelming light (which is natural given language) on EU issues.
The criticism of the EU only started to occur 6 weeks ago. For a pandemic nearly a year on. The vaccine roll out is simply a natural extension. The whole EU bashing, bias a false perception. Understandable given Brexit. However, criticism of the EU has been coming from all corners. (Various nations and even the WHO).
Those in the EU should be fucking angry at their leadership for how they have manged to damage their own nations. The low vaccine uptake to problems to acting in the same way they past critised other nations. The end outcome is greater loss of life, then there should have been. Damage to EUs reputation, and longer before things return to normal. Thats a travesty.
Those in the EU can fall for the narrative its all AZ fault. That criticism is propaganda. Thats letting your leadership (both sovereign nations and the EU) off the hook.
Perhaps our view is obscured a little give the Uk’s success (which was on the back of a last throw of the dice). But I’m also surprised give that there are people like Merkel who is a scientist in her own right and obviously has some understanding on what we’re dealing with here.
The biggest shock to me is withholding of vaccines to elsewhere in the world despite a low uptake within their own population and there is obviously spare. I could understand it if it came via some agreement / discussion with Australia but just closing the door seems very …well un European.
I’ve got to admit that it does also bug me that people like Gove, Rees-Mogg, Farage can actually turn round and say “look, I told you so”. That proper pisses me off that these people get proven right just once, despite being wrong countless times beforehand.
I’m posting information that is relevant to the biggest crisis most of us will have experienced in our lifetimes. I’m taking the time to do so to help people be informed. It’s frustrating that there is then a need, sometimes, to correct false assertions. The vaccine roll out ought to provide hope. It ought to be celebrated. Instead it’s become a topic of false claim after false claim. That’s not come from me. I’m not responsible for that.
You know, setting the record straight takes time. But I’ve realised that facts are appreciated less in here than maintaining a certain narrative. Post false information to attack a certain side…so many people lap it up. That false information is then corrected? Boo hiss, throw in a personal dig or two. I’m sorry but it is pathetic.
I’m really only joking with you but I do think one of the issues is now that you’re out you don’t separate each country from the EU. Italy did this, France said that, Germany want this. You conviently have forgotten there are 20 odd other countries whose citizens don’t agree with those things, as well as a lot of citizens within those countries who don’t agree, yet you keep rubbing people) intentionally) up the wrong way by wording things in such a way as to sound like you are saying we are all the same because we are part of the EU.
I think, in fact I’m sure you know what you’re doing and you’re doing it for a bit of banter. That’s grand but no need to call posters out for either not participating with you or not agreeing with you.
For fucking up the vaccine procurement that’s on the European Commission, which, whether you like it or not, is the EU. Italy blocking exports is only possible because of an EU measure introduced post hoc directly in response to their own mishandling of procurement. VdL criticism of AZ? That’s the EU. Charles Michels, EU Council President, making false claims about UK export bans? That’s on the EU. Macron making false claims about efficacy, that’s on him. Handelsblatt doing the same? That’s on Germany. But this has filtered through the whole EU now - just look at the difference between the take up of AZ and Pfizer.
How countries are dealing with the pandemic within their own borders, that’s for the individual countries. Why is Spain underreporting deaths by approximately 30%? Why are cases in France and Italy rising again? How has Germany managed to, relatively, keep numbers down? These are where I treat the countries discreetly. Border restrictions (and questions about sovereignty) imposed within Schengen? That’s a combination.
I don’t disagree at all with the premise of the debate, it’s the way the some seem to enjoy shovelling things down our necks right up to the ears when it’s on their line of the agenda. I know it’s only an internet forum and sometimes our online personas can be exaggerated but fk me, there’s not many internet personas with such apparent lack of self awareness.
There is tribalism in the debate. But I think its more than fair to say its on both sides. I can still though support Liverpool and state that I think Salah was offside. Or believe Piers Morgan is a twat, but believe he did some good holding the government to account during the pandemic.
Accusations of bias, agenda, and misrepresenting truth don’t tend to sit well. When I have posted articles from the likes of the Financial Times, video interviews, providing many quotes, provided facts and figures from polls and EUs own numbers. Much of that driven by accusations of bias and asking for proof.
Even the latest of conflating sovereign nations with the EU. When I have given examples of those within these countries criticising the EU. The likes of the German finance minister (Olaf Scholz) who called EU vaccine process “a total shit show”.
For me I call it as I see it. Italy using less than 1 in 5 of its AZ vaccine, for me has no legitimate right to block exports of AZ vaccine to other countries. For me that’s wrong. Motivation is political not a covid response. I see the actions of Ursula von der Leyen as being political. Face saving, muscle-flexing.
Ultimately that what all of this boils down to. The entire shit show. I am not bashing I am saying the AZ is a sideshow. A scapegoat. One that should be obvious to everyone given the poor utilisation of what actually has been delivered.
The collapse of the environment and loss of biodiversity is a far bigger problem yet people don’t treat it as such, probably because it is both less immediate and less visible to the average person.
It’s a bit like breaking a bone and immediately heading to A&E to get it sorted with a few weeks off work. When all along, you have been smoking 40 a day and drinking every night for 30 years and your body is creaking under the chronic damage that you have ignored because you’ve kind of functioned fine.
To be completely fair, the Covid news cycle at the minute is dominated by the Vaccine. Everything else has had its day. Testing was a shambles, but has now settled into general competence. Pretty much every other aspect of the response has been lamentable, but the time at which it was a story has passed.
But the story right now is the vaccine, and on this the Government have generally done OK (or rather, the industry/pharma/science response has been phenomenal - The Government three a load of money at it on a wing and a prayer that it would pay off).
On the other hand, the EU seem to have ballsed their vaccine programme up. They waited too long to place their orders, and when those orders couldn’t be met, they started throwing shit around in a deeply unprofessional, childish fashion.
And I say that as one of the most pro-EU, staunch remain people on this site.
When all is done and dusted, theare needs to be a reckoning for the Government on the clusterfuck that passed for their response, a roots and branch investigation of everything from their unpreparedness in general, through not taking it seriously in the early days, the profiteering, the dawdling, the u-turns, the confusing messaging - everything. The positivity they have got from the virus seeming to pay off can’t be allowed to become the defining story of Covid.
But for now, people like me who hate this government with a fucking passion, are just going to have to just suck it up, like when Man U actually put in a good performance.
