It’s the one that really solidified the relationship between vaccine and Guillain–Barre, with rates 4-5 times higher in vaccinated patients than normal. However, even at that rate, it occurs so infrequently so as to be difficult to detect. At the high end of the figures, if we vaccinated the entire country it would produce only 4500 additional cases of GB than had we not vaccinated anyone.
For something like Covid, a disease that can produce GB like neurological symptoms, an increase of that amount of new GB cases would have to be balanced against the number of cases we prevented due to people not getting Covid associated GB.
I only had it from memory, so had to google. You know this better than me probably, but in Norway we have had several cases of narcolepsy which doctors say is a bi-effect of the swine flue vaccine.
Anyway, as you say it doesn’t matter, it is our responsibility to get vaccinated as responsible citizens despite any possible negative bi effects in the future (this is my own view), since the epidemic is so incredibly damaging for ones country, both in terms of people getting sick, but just as much the massive economical damage.
Anyway, the number of people who had serious bi effects in Norway seems a bit higher, I think, than the number you have or the US. Only in 2013, 538 people in Norway suffered from serious bi effects from the vaccine Pandemrix, and more after. If you want to google translate you can, but I am just posting this for documentation:
But even so, even if you can get sick some years from now theoretically, everyone should still get vaccinated in my view so that we can defeat the pandemic.
To be fair, whether it took 10 days or 100 days, it still is a rushed decision and can only be made with whatever information that is available from the manufacturers. If it took 100 days, maybe it will look better psychologically to the public but to me in reality, the information is already there, for good or bad, decisions can only be made from them and it probably would not take too long.
What if like Yellow Fever, that countries or even airlines requiring you to take the vaccines before they even allow you on board? Would that change your decision on whether to take the vaccine or not, considering that would mean limiting your leisure or even business travel.
I’d be happy to not get on a plane for a year till they bring out vaccine service pack 1. Like cars and operating systems, never take the first version, wait for mass trials (the general public) to identify the problems.
Obviously many people will not be in such a luxurious position to just wait it out. But it will be down to personal risk assessment if the vaccines are mainly for protection of getting severely sick as an individual.
If any one of the vaccines does turn out to stop people from being contagiuous though it would be great on the one hand (in terms of conatining/ending the pandemic), but I’m not sure if people realise what kind of fierce debates/problems in society this might cause in the next year. From workplace to personal life. I don’t think this will be just about flying.
It’s one thing to expect someone to respect social distance rules etc to stop the spread of the virus but if a young, fit and healthy person who genuinely believes these vaccines have been rushed into use(as the EU are currently saying to the UK) how much risk should that person take so that others are protected from the virus.
I’m not arguing for mandatory vaccination for the general public. I do think it would be somewhat naive to think this won’t lead to debates and problems though, particularly if the vaccine stops infectiousness.
I’m also not sure that once we reach the point where it’s mainly about the young, fit and healthy this will be main problem anymore. But it will take a long time until then. Goverments will have different plans as to who gets access to the vaccines and when (and not everyone will be happy about the order).
Now imagine e.g. someone refusing to get the vaccine while someone else at your workplace or wherever is still on the ‘waiting list’ and concerned about getting infected for whatever reason.
I’m not disagreeing that it won’t cause conflict,just that,at this point, someones reason for not wanting to take it is equal to anothers reason for wanting it and we should all remember that before we get into conflict,weather in the workplace or elsewhere.
I don’t know about Ireland, but my capacity to have trust in the general public to have reasoned, reasonable debate about this whole Corona issue is pretty much at an all-time-low. Granted it’s not a majority, but geez, there are loads of nutters and arseholes around.
I shouldn’t be surprised, I know, I know…
Walk round my local supermarket, guy in there had a hole cut in his mask earlier today to breath through and had it under his nose. Might as well put it on your head mate.
I don’t think it is equal though. Not all opinions carry equal weight, and definitely should not be weighed evenly when the consequences of one’s actions can not be isolated to the individual, as is the case when it comes to public health issues like this. In the abstract, that is not remotely controversial. For instance, you may be of the opinion that you are a better driver after you’ve had several drinks, but there is a good and well accepted reason we dont accept that as equally a valid and defensible opinion as those who say that you should not be on the road like that.
You cannot force people to take these vaccines, but you can impose social consequences on them, and there is well established precedent for that.
Sort of odd to look around and see that there are not that many places that have a curve like the Ottawa area - most of the places that are doing well are doing so on the back of near-eradication, like NZ and now Australia. We looked like we were headed for disaster in October, but managed to turn it around.
In the UK employees owe a duty not to jeopardise the health and safety of their colleagues. Employers owe a duty to provide a safe working environment.
Seems straightforward to me. Anyone refusing a vaccine passed as safe without an extremely good reason should be held in fundamental breach of contract and dismissed if they maintain their refusal without justification.
The data from the trials? As @Limiescouse has said above, the time it has taken to develop other vaccines is normally down to bureaucracy & funding slowing things down, not from the actual testing and development process by the scientists.