Is that show any good? I tried the Borgias a few years ago but hated it, so Im on the fence about trying this one.
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I watched the first season because I’m drawn to historic series. But from what I could gather, it’s largely inaccurate historically. Besides that, the show is really shite in terms of dramaturgy. The actors are badly conducted and the intrigue is utterly predictable.
Not worth bothering imo, you learn nothing from this.
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Feels exactly like the Borgias, and historically, Hope’s description is being kind.
Prolly not for you.
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Room 101 material there, mate.
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Da Vinci’s Demons was good too.
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So what you’re saying is…
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Should probably ask this at Trump’s thread but since it has historical connotations I might as well as do it here: is Trump the worst US president ever?
He and Bush jr are the leading candidates by far for me. Is there anyone else who fills the bill?
Ever? Trump or Dubya worse than the supporters of slavery?
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When you look at lists of worst presidents they are concentrated in an around Lincoln, The period leading up to the civil war is universally considered one of poor presidential leadership, so the candidates for this title generally come from this era. James Polk is considered one of our best Presidents, but then every man from him until Lincoln, and then Andrew Johnson immediately after Lincoln all tend to be rated right at the bottom of the list. The two men who book ended Lincoln, Buchanan and Johnson, are particularly poorly rated. Buchanan for basically appeasing the States who would go to succeed, and Johnson for immediately giving back most of the hard earned progress from the Civil War.
Harding was regarded at the time of his death, but there has been a considerable reevaluation of his presidency since. In part because everyone from that time was tainted by the Depression, but in part because the scandals that came to light after his term ended. The Tea Pot Dome scandal was the biggest scandal in US politics prior to the “gate” era of scandals.
Hoover tends not to be on his list, but possibly should be as he was not just wrong, but belligerently so on pretty much everything about the Depression and kind of like Trump today, actually tried to fuck with FDR’s efforts to address the problem in the hope of undercutting him and thus preparing himself for a comeback in the following election.
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They can’t be judged with today’s standards though. It was different times with a totally different system of beliefs. Slavery and racism were regarded as the natural order of things; George Washington owned slaves as did Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson, the principal author of the Declaration of Independence which explicitly states that all men are created equal. If you are white, that is.
Trump is a racist and a sexist in an era where such ideas have long been proven to be false and outdated.
Hoover was bitter and doggedly opposed to Roosevelt and his policies but at least he conceded his defeat. Trump seems capable to stooping at the lowest of lows to remain in power.
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While it is true that slavery was accepted, it is often overstated in how much the public agreed with it.
Abolitionists have always existed and often in large numbers. People knew it was wrong to own other people and escaped slaves often found friends in working class neighbourhoods who would shield and protect them.
Unfortunately, we still have a “great man” view of history and only really care about what the leaders of the day thought and just like today those were people who were financially invested in the maintenance of slavery. Our view of the average man in times gone by is tained by almost always viewing “commoners” through the eyes of the rich and powerful.
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The caveat I would put to that is that slavery was not in question when Washington and Jefferson were in office, but by the time Andrew Jackson comes to office, Britain has acted against the slave trade and the country was increasingly divided, to the point of violence in Congress itself. Few of the Presidents of that generation did anything to address the looming crisis.
On the scale of things, I would not rate Bush Jr. as right at the bottom, disastrous as his wars have proven to be. Bottom quartile, probably.
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Do you mean Johnson, here? Britain enacted the Slavery Abolition Act in 1833, exactly half way through Jackson’s Presidency (1829-1837). It was Johnson (1865-1869) I was thinking of as being particularly woeful and certainly below Bush Jr and perhaps Trump too. Johnson practically wanted to turn back the clock on emancipation.
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No, I meant Jackson, forgot he was a two term President. Not a great president either to my mind, but my point was how poor the presidents in the generation or so before the ACW were. I agree with Limiescouse’s take on Buchanan and Johnson, with Johnson deserving particular criticism for squandering the situation that earlier presidents had tried to avoid.
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I would say Trump is the worst president in terms of keeping faith in democracy- all presidents to now have trumpeted the ideals of our democratic system- and in that umbrella you can find fault with policy and direction of government- but Trump has zigged and is now publicly trying to subvert the democratic system- they only president that comes to mind having done so. FDR served four terms, but then law was passed limiting terms, so maybe one could argue about FDR subverting democracy somehow- but I’m not knowledgeable enough to make an argument one way or another. Trump is the only one that is actually trying to weaken the public’s faith in the system, going all the way back to George Washington refusal to be considered a king after defeating the English. His response to Colonel Lewis Nicola, who suggested he could be king:
I am much at a loss to conceive what part of my conduct could have given encouragement to an address which to me seems big with the greatest mischiefs that can befall my Country. If I am not deceived in the knowledge of myself, you could not have found a person to whom your schemes are more disagreeable.
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And the full scale of the damage he’s done is not known yet.
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…and he has not left the White House yet…!!! Still time to wreak more havoc 
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Yup good point, and we won’t know before some time has gone by.
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Excellent point. See the advent of social/oral/gender history in the latter-decades of the twentieth century.
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