The Inequality Thread

Just no.
It’s basically cheating.

Just because I don’t really know anything about golf, what advantages would one expect gender to confer in golf?

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Really??
Distance.
Regular female professionals drive the ball +/- 260 yards, this individual will drive the ball 300 + yards.
This means while the regular professionals are hitting a 5 iron into a green, this individual will be hitting a wedge, therefore gaining an unfair advantage.

Basically cheating.

Be similar to a trans woman throwing the javelin against Katarina Johnson-Thompson.

Blatant mis match and clear example of cheating.

Yet her longest drive of the season so far is 261 yards making her length totally unremarkable among the other competitors on her tour.

I don’t believe that for a second

And I think that is the perfect encapsulation of this issue.

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I was going to ask the same question - I’m also curious as to whether there is an impact from the treatment a person would undergo in making that switch.

Yes, really. I genuinely know nearly nothing about golf and the challenges therein.

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As with most sports, there’s a biological reason why men and women don’t compete against each other.
You don’t need to know a thing about golf to understand why that’s the case.

Taking cis men vs cis women, the distribution is very clearly different. Some women can outhit lots of men, but the majority of men will outhit the vast majority of women. For height shown in the figure below, replace with distance.

image

The issue is a 31 year old trans woman who started medical transition at 20 (before puberty finished), and has been living like that for a long time is very clearly not the same as a 31 year old cis male. Where they fall into the distribution is not something science can say with any confidence, but this golfer’s experience is very typical - lost 10% of her club head speed and driving distance compared to her 20 year old cis male old self making her unremarkable in these characteristics among her cis female competitors.

But you know, this has been done so many times now

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The issue I have with that is that it’s a testable theory, and according to what @Limiescouse has said, the data doesn’t really match up with the claim, does it?

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Ah of course.
I didn’t read the data (opinion) that he posted.

How careless of me.

What else do you expect of an unusually long hitter? Success on Par 5s or eagles?

1 eagle in 9 rounds

164 holes per eagle

Par 5 cumulative performance - 10th among 31 tour competitors

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Obviously not a very good short game.
2 golfers drove it further.
What were the yardages off the tee of places 6 to 31?

Just because Svetlana Throwitfar and Vafa Tossitamile can throw further, it wouldn’t be a fair match up to allow a biological male to compete in womens javelin events .

Some people have a lot of time on their hands… :wink:

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I’d like to know why these idiots can’t tell inequality from gender equality.

You’re in the wrong thread, morons.

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There is an issue here. Stats may support or detract from the rights of transwomen participating in sport, but they are just stats in particular instances. For me the golfer isn’t cheating, mainly because she is participating within the competition confines that governs all entries.
The organisers allow her to compete, so there can be no complaint when she wins.
This really doesn’t address the overall question of the rights of trans competitors in traditional sporting competition.

@Limiescouse has produced data which suggests a deterioration in standard by the golfer since being a cis man aged twenty. This could relate to hormone change, or be ascribed to a natural decline from teen years in standards anyway. Some people peak early in various sports. @Dane recognises the primary difference between male and female competitors. There is no comfortable place for the golfer to compete though. Her transition has led to a deterioration in typical male attributes of strenght, whilst also having her branded as “too strong” for the womens game.

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I think the key point here is, as has been argued before, you can’t make sweeping statements about entire groups of people. Saying trans women shouldn’t be allowed to do x, is a reductive argument. It might not be appropriate for some transwomen to play golf. It might not be an issue for some others. The only way to do it fairly is to look at issues like BMI, testosterone levels. There is a world of difference between someone who has transitioned at thirty, and someone who has transitioned at twenty.

Personally, I think part of the problem here is that a large section of society seems to think that transwomen are men who have decided they want to put a frock on. People are completely ignorant of the nuances of the process.

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Isn’t the issue here that her drive suggests she isn’t too strong for the female game. It’s within the tolerance of what might be considered normal for female golfers.