your cherry-picking of snippets of conversations which don’t suit your neo-Liberal bleeding heart agenda is disturbing at best. how many other posters in this thread have you attempted to engage in argument with, and failed? where was your bleeding heart when Assad was bombing his own people? Did you walk the streets in protest outside the Syrian Embassy? Write letters to your local MP encouraging them to use their voice in the House of Parliament?
I’m your Huckleberry, let’s have a go at it then… Start with this
To be fair there was a thread on TIA exactly like this. One about Syria and criticising the lack of action by the west. There were pictures of civilians after chemical weapons were many in this thread were equally disgusted.
The counter argument was that many of the posters where against intervention in Iraq why should they be pro here.
99% of posters didn’t join a protest, they didn’t write a letter to their MP, they only showed their disgust through a forum or talking to friends. However that is probably true today with Israel.
The question comes directly from the conversation with Tamir.
He quoted 1400 Israeli deaths and said they must be avenged. I engaged with conversation to try to get a handle on what that might look like, from the perspective of Tamir.
Interestingly, I think the whole world would be relieved if Israel applied a teaching of Judaism here. How about an eye for an eye?
That sensible measure would put a reasonable limit on what we all fear is about to happen.
my response in vitriol was to the statement of an apparent lack of empathy in this forum by "some people. very few of the posters in this forum have a direct link to these conflicts in the middle east, we are geographically and culturally removed from what that situation would actually feel like
But from an outsider’s point of view, there is a lot of sympathy expressed in this thread to the plight of the common Palestinian and Israeli people… which I think I demonstrated clearly…
May (insert religious figurehead here) have mercy on their souls.
Re Iran and Hezbullah - The 2 US aircraft carriers are here to keep that front quiet. I hope it stays quiet, When the US threats like that I expect them to back it.
There is no number I can give you. what ever it takes to erase Hamas (which have 100,000 - 150,000 members, 50,000 are militants) and I hope it would be low and would end soon - we don’t like our soldiers in Gaza and if there is anything that Israelis don’t like is dead 18 year old soldiers …
we accept that the idea of Hamas can not be erased just as ISIS and Nazis ideologies still exist…(even carried trump to the white house)
No other country in the world would act different and no other country in the world would need to answer this “proportion” standard after it was attacked first.
I liken it to abusing a pet animal. Imagine an owner chains a dog, never giving it freedom , does not give it enough water, on a fairly frequent basis gives it a good kick. Ensures the dog lives in fear. Do you blame the dog when it bites the owner ?
Israel holds all the power, the terrorism is a direct consequence of years of abuse.
I don’t for one minute believe that further beating that dog, as punishment is going to make that dog more well behaved. Let’s be honest Israel knows this too. It creates more scares, more resentment, more anger.
At it’s core Israel denies millions of people basic human rights. They have done so for an inexcusably long time.
If anything the type of response (6000 bombs in a few days) Israel has just added 150,000 recruits to Hamas by punishing the entire population. For every home destroyed, wife or child killed, you have a person willing to pick up a gun and fight.
Which comes down to the ultimate question. Does Israel want peace ? Do they want to live in harmony ? Honestly I don’t think they do.
Oh come on, the dog had bitten the owner multiple times before it was kennelled. The first suicide bomber was mid-eighties, that’s 20yrs before the Gazans were blockaded.
I agree with you here. Has anyone else on this thread actually been to West Bank or Gaza? If you had you would be a lot less slower in calling someone who has friends there, and cares, a ‘bleeding heart neoliberal’ (think you meant liberal)
The last years had Israel trying to lower the tension with Hamas. They let 18,500 workers from Gaza enter to work here (turned out they collected intelligence as well).
They enlarged water, electricity (funny we five our enemies this, like england sending coal to Germany during wwii)
if we go back to 2005 Israel removed all settlement from Gaza (Sharon’s Disengagement) and completely left that region into its own borders.
Hamas = ISIS. No point talking with it, doing it is an act of weakness and will only order more similar attacks.
In the middle east - not replying strongly only invites others to attack as well. Hezbullah watches us and looks for weakness.
about Netanyahu - I agree, Israelis say Bibi only cares about Bibi. Luckily I never fell for it and voted him when I live Israel (been on and off the country for several years)
Israel and Gaza are enemies for a long time. Why should Israel provide anything ?
Why doesn’t Egypt supply them water and electricity? the have a common border.
I dont agree with what you said because Israel left Gaza in 2005 (Sharon’s Disengagement) hoping to never deal with it again. Yet they kept with the rockets attack and now this genocide they did in israels South …
You can go to Hamas website and read its charter - it is not an organization you can do peace with
That’s whataboutism. I don’t ever remember suicide bombers in the UK - do you mean the ‘troubles’?
Anyway, you’ve sidestepped my point - the biting dog unhappy about being punished for biting? Not only does this dog bite, it bites every time it can. There’s an argument it should be put down. Perhaps your analogy was a bad one for your argument.
I don’t think either party has a basis to believe the other wishes to live in peace and harmony with them. Arab neighbours with extensive Palestinian collaboration in 1948 attempted to strangle Israel in the cradle, so to speak. You can take whatever view you wish of the legitimacy of their cause, but it was formative for the Israeli experience and it would be difficult to point to any incident since that suggests peace is a desire rather than a product of Israeli power.
The mirror to that is that Israel has expanded as a result of each struggle, really until near the end of the 20th century. Palestinians can be forgiven for noticing that Jews/Israelis have a wildly different vision of Israel’s restraint/humanitarian imperatives than most of the rest of the world.
