The Middle East Thread

I know you cannot directly compare the results of parliamentary elections to presidential elections, but it is important to remember how small a % of the total vote is keeping in that office. I think Likud got only about 20% of the total vote last time.

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Of course, the nature of the governing coalition is what it is because an increasing number of other votes are going to parties to the right of even the current Likud

Itā€™s not even as if it is some kind of an unexpected coup. For years , the trajectory that Netanyahu has dragged Likud ,and the country , along on has been incrementally further to the extremes of the right. I think the tipping point (i.e. the point of no return) probably came about in 2018 with the passing of the Jewish State law. That was when Israel stopped being a modern functioning democracy and threw its lot in with the far right. The present Government is the logical conclusion to the path they set themselves on.

Yes, one commentator I heard last week made the point that every fork in the road he has reached where his own personal position has been questioned he has taken the path to the right to help bolster his own position.

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A nationā€™s slip into the dictatorship is much, much, faster (and smoother) than its rise from it. Egypt has been under dictatorship for over four decades now, Saddam Hussain too lasted for several decades, and Assad is still in power in Syria. Thereā€™s hardly and sign that Poland and Hungary will return to liberal governments any time soo,

Instead, we should be prepared for the havoc this regime is going to create for Israelis, Palestinians, and the Middle East in general.

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Yeah, itā€™s a sad development. These dictators are like leeches. Once they are in place, you can hardly get rid of them. They generally have the backing of police and army, and bar an intervention from outside, nothing can really unsettle them, as they have no morals in the way they run their country. Itā€™s all about themselves, always.

Edit: Regarding Israel, you could say that the current development is quite logical in a sense. Since around thirty years, their successive governments, especially Likoud governments. have done the utmost to unsettle the surrounding Arab countries, and to hinder their economic and social growth. With their allies the US, their goal has consistently been to hinder any telling progress in the Middle East.

They wanted a primitive, ā€˜stone-ageā€™ Middle East around them, in order to feel superior and safe. Now that they have what they wanted, they are surrounded by poverty, chaos and dictatorships. But why should it be be different for them in the long term? Contrarily to what they say and apparently believe, they are a full part of the Middle East. So, Iā€™m afraid that they will now go down that route as well: poverty and dictatorship.

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I donā€™t think the conflict is going to escalate beyond Levant. The greater middle East is not going to be affected so much by this. Israel has succeeded in making this conflict look like a local one.

There has been outrage for sure. But nothing thatā€™s forcing any Gulf oil rich countries breaking the status quo

Iā€™m really not sure the dictatorship will happen. Netanyahu will go down. But the question is what happens after. The population is so radicalised that anyone who comes after Netanyahu is going to essentially be a worst version of him (but someone who wonā€™t carry the same baggage that he does).

I agree with this as well. The move to right wing govts is basically shifting the centrism index pretty far to the right that basically even centrist politcies seem like far left. Once that is done , thereā€™s a new status quo in place.

Itā€™s happening for India , Turkey , Israel, Brazil even to a lesser (albeit more dangerous extent in USA). And obviously Poland and Hungary as you mention.

I do think UK and France have been shifting the status quo to the right too. Even if a labour govt comes in to the UK , theyā€™ll be hardpressed to roll back quite a lot of the tory policies. They canā€™t rollback brexit for sure as well.

Same goes with France , the incumbent govt under Macron has been pushing the status quo increasingly to the right that France at this moment looks set to get a more radical right wing leader. If not the next election when they loseā€¦ The ones following when (if the left win and spontaneously combust).

Iā€™m a bit confused here. What are you referring to when you talk about a conflict ?

The Israel Palestine issue when ifti mentioned this was going to go to affect the whole of middle east

Ok , I see ā€¦ although the point being discussed was internal Israeli politics rather than the wider conflict. But , re:my last post , this thing does have the potential (as usual) to spark a wider regional conflict. And of course one should never underestimate Netanyahuā€™s willingness to embark upon any action , regardless of the consequences , that might benefit himself in the short term.

Yeah, that will teach him a lesson for all those atrocities. :clap:

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I finally got around to watching ā€˜The Human Factorā€™. It was on my ā€˜listā€™ for a while, saw it on Netflix, done.

Thoroughly enjoyed it, would recommend if you havenā€™t seen it and are interested.

Rather depressing that it ended so bleakly, particularly given it is now four years old and the situation has deteriorated significantly in that time.

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I have to say Iā€™m at an absolute loss as to how anyone can think that the plan being proffered is going to survive the domestic backlash in each of the stakeholdersā€™ countries. Thereā€™s more chance of Utd winning the League than there is of this happening.

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On the 50th anniversary of the October War when Syria and Egypt launched a surprise attack against Israel , Hamas spring one of their own. There are pictures on Twitter of hostages being taken. If the militants can get them back to Gaza , what is already an extremely serious situation could soon be a full blown crisis.

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Would the narrative be still ā€˜Its Israelā€™s fault stillā€¦no matter whatā€¦ā€™

Going to be lots of civilian casualties on both ends, unfortunately.