Would it have occurred if there was no occupation and no siege in Gaza ?
5 Likes
You do know that the whole Israel and the Arab world conflict did not just start from there right? This tit for tat has been happening since I donât know whenâŚits quite easy to just decide the starting point of the conflict anywhere you decide to.
Itâs as if Hamas was just trying to defend its own landâs sovereignty and Israel never had to and was just attacking people for fun.
Well most people would contend that the conflict began in 1948 with the forcible removal of Palestinians from their homeland , and todayâs Israeli Government is now on the brink of annexing the entire West Bank. Thereâs not really much difference between the two things.
3 Likes
Oh ok rightâŚsure.
The genesis of the conflict is far more of an academic question than a practically relevant one. Far more relevant is the situation the state of Israel has created for the Palestinians.
Some people who want to focus on the older elements of the conflict may debate how much terroristic activity would still be a present in a world where Israeli was not a militaristic apartheid state, but they are, and that always produces terrorism, often dumb self-defeating acts like this, because there are fuck all other options for the subjugated people
6 Likes
mate there is no occupation or siege on gaza, gaza != west bank.
both are Palestinian but rules by different organization.
the image from Israel South is horrible, little kids were kidnapped from their parents into gaza. many were slaughtered in their beds
civilians⌠not army soldiers
Gaza has been blockaded for 16yrs , and Gaza is not the West Bank.
1 Like
Obviously any violence against innocent children must be condemned, but do you also condemn the violence of the Israeli forces against Palestinian children?
Since 2008 6407 Palestinians have been killed of which 1437 were children. In the same time period 308 Israelis have died of which 25 were children.
3 Likes
I am surprised anybody can support a âsideâ in this conflict. The whole thing is emotionally numbing. Weâve got the military arms of Palestine and Israel duking it out, whose actions are supported by, likely, a majority of the respective civilian populations, and the civilian populations are the ones that suffer.
1 Like
Netanyahu yesterday with some advice for Gaza residents ; " Get out of there now."
And where should they go exactly ? To the Egyptian border ,where they would be shot at ? To the Israeli border , where they would be shot at or into the sea perhaps , where they would also be shot at ?
The one single person who has done more than any other to bring about this looming apocalypse now seeks cover with a statement that is on its face preposterous.
8 Likes
Itâs a remote possibility, but I wouldnât be completely suprised if Mossad had informed Netanyahou of the attack and he and his right wing buddies decided to allow it to take place, in order to strengthen their hand and gain full control in the interior political scene. There certainly wonât be many protests against the right-wingâs plans now in Israel henceforth.
As for the Palestinians, this is calamitous. Terrorism has never and will never achieve anything but turn the rest of the world against them. The atrocities theyâve committed will be used by the hypocritical West to rally to Israelâs side and turn a blind eye again to the greater savageries the latter have perpetrated in the past and will commit in the near future. Essentially, they have given IDF a carte blance with regard to the retaliations if not a pretext for an outright invasion. It is a given that the death toll for the civilians on both sides will be enormous, but disporportionally higher for the Palestinians.
Another parameter is the Iranians and how much of a factor they were in planning and directing this operation. If the Iranians were in fact pulling the strings, it would fundamentally mean that theyâve used the Palestininians as disposable pawns to strike at their enemy without repercussions to themselves, with the latter getting the short end of the stick again.
2 Likes
I would be more surprised if the Saudis didnât have a hand in this, exporting terrorism is more their thing than Iran
The thought had occurred to me. There do appear to be some parallels with the Yom Kippur war of 1973 (it was actually on the 50th anniversary). That didnât pan out well for the incumbent government but it probably did strengthen the hand of right wingers. Itâs pretty much shaped Israeli policy ever since.
Iâve noticed quite a few comments from secular Israelis that, seemingly, they are being the ones fired at, conscripted and held hostage whilst the ultra-orthodox get a free ride. I can only see it driving division further.
3 Likes
A war on two fronts ? Or possibly even three if militants in the West Bank heed the calls of the Hamas leader from yesterday. An early indication of just how fast this skirmish can metatastise into a wider regional conflict.
1 Like
I can understand the temptation to suspect Netanyahu of engineering a crisis for his own political security , but I think itâs fanciful to suggest that the attack was anything other than the result of a catastrophic failure of imagination from Israeli intelligence.
Obviously now we are about to see a major land invasion from the Israelis , but in the past Netanyahu has steered well clear of that for the very good reason that his soldiers will be engaged in urban warfare with an enemy adept at it.
And what would âvictoryâ look like anyway ⌠the complete destruction of all buildings and infrastructure and a humanitarian catastrophe to boot ? And throw into the mix the fact that we will soon be seeing hostage videos of bloodied Israeli soldiers. How long will the Israeli public and its commanders be able to stomach that on top of the trauma that they have already suffered ?
1 Like
interested to know what Russia is thinking at the moment,
you have the Palestines attacking a US ally, with support from Iran who are an ally of Russia
1 Like
Orchestrated. As was the Ukraine invasion, Imran Khan visited Moscow the day before and was caught saying âwhat an exciting time to be hereâ. The then President of Pakistan had been notified in advance that Russia were going to invade Ukraine. There is a massive onslaught against the west, in conception at least, in the minds of Iran, Russia, NK, IslamismâŚand China, who are probably the brakes on it at the moment.
2 Likes
The US had been warning about it for weeks. It wasnât some secret squirrel surprise attack.
1 Like
The actual day is another level of intelligence, we all saw the Russian troops amassed even in Nov. Khan knew the actual day, so the statement is correct. Khan had advanced knowledge.