The Middle East Thread

[Bekloppt]

Harari is not a Zionist fuckwit by any stretch of the imagination.

[PaulRoJo]

If you read what he is attributed as saying in that article then yes he is. To declaim criticism of Israeli actions ‘because they haven’t mentioned HAMAS’ is very unhelpful and suggests that he is only ‘leftist’ until Israeli actions are criticised.

[WeeJoe]

I like Harari and not questioning his experience, but I haven’t seen this in any commentary, including on this thread. Any of us speaking up for Palestinians have continually stated something similar to the conclusion of his letter:

“there is no contradiction between staunchly opposing the Israeli subjugation and occupation of Palestinians and unequivocally condemning brutal acts of violence against innocent civilians. In fact, every consistent leftist must hold both positions simultaneously.”

[PaulRoJo]

Exactly, but what he seems to be doing is akin to picking out a singular post here and thus claiming that because it doesn’t also mention Hamas, that it (and the poster) are somehow apologists for terrorism.

[peterroberts]

I don’t think that is entirely fair to be honest. There have been lots of very good articles posted from commentators/experts looking at this thing in its entirety and in an objective way. I think most people here are interested in contextualising events and looking for solutions more than simply arguing for its own sake . Obviously things can get heated but with such an emotional subject that’s hardly surprising.

[redalways]

@Sithbare

I meant a hypothetical situation where any country if faced with a terrorist attack of this magnitude and brutality , if the country had superior force of arms , would do the exact same thing.

It’s on what other countries would do if they faced this particular situation.

And they would still be morally wrong in their reactions. Two wrongs do not make a right. Governments should be held to higher moral standards than we hold 5-year-olds to.

[redalways]

@RedWhippet

Apparently you have to take sides.

If so I’m on side of the innocent civilians who have known nothing but violence and fear. I’m on the side of innocent civilians who get slaughtered because of the actions of the leaders they had no part in choosing. I’m on the side of the innocent civilians who have had to suffer because of the maximalist ambitions of their pathetic leaders and their pathetic egos.

[peterroberts]

Israel says it has refused a visa to UN humanitarian affairs chief Martin Griffiths as a result of comments at the UN by secretary-general António Guterres.

Israeli media reports that Israel’s ambassador to the UN Gilad Erdan said on army radio:

“Due to his remarks we will refuse to issue visas to UN representatives. We have already refused a visa for under-secretary-general for humanitarian affairs Martin Griffiths. The time has come to teach them a lesson.”

Yeah , that’ll help.

[redalways]

@peterroberts

The time has come to teach them a lesson

How mature.

[RedArmada]

@WeeJoe

And currently they’re showing restraint while America are sending billions of dollars of military aid to a genocide.

Restraint isn’t the term I’d use to describe Iran’s role in this mess. If anything, they’ve been an instigator by aiding Hamas and Hezbollah. They’re using them as proxies against the Israeli state and they don’t give a damn about the fate of the innocent Palestinians who have to bear the brunt of the retaliation.

As for them not invading other countries: not going to give them props for ostensibly respecting international law, when they’ve had a hand at the civil war in Yemen and are supplying Putin with arms. I also shudder to think how they’d have acted if they had armed forces as powerful as the American ones.

The world is right to criticize Iran as it is right to criticize the US, Israel and Hamas. The only ones who are completely blameless are the thousands of civilians on both sides who pay the ultimate price.

[PaulRoJo]

@peterroberts

The time has come to teach them a lesson

The time has long since past that it is time for Israeli to be taught a lesson. I fear it will have to be very tough before it gets through to them…

[ISMF]

That’s the ambassador….you know the guy whose job it is to be diplomatic He also called for his resignation !

If I was the UN I would send him this book

[anon27364116]

@JU97ICE

Those that think Israel is conducting in a proportionate response are firmly entrenched in that view.

Are there actually many posters here who hold that view?

[Sithbare]

@redalways

And they would still be morally wrong in their reactions. Two wrongs do not make a right. Governments should be held to higher moral standards than we hold 5-year-olds to.

I agree with you. It’s just what every govt does.

[Iftikhar]

@RedArmada

@WeeJoe

@Nobluff

Im personally quite concerned with Iran in all this. I would say that they are quite easily one of the most prolific empires when it comes to wars and conflicts, partly due to the fact that they have been around for a while

I’m amazed at the restraint Iran have shown. Iran haven’t invaded another country for hundreds of years. Yes, they have given proxy support to conflicts but nothing compared to America who have been constantly at war in multiple countries since 1776.

I find it astounding that people criticise Iran while the US are actively involved in providing military support to a genocide, right before our eyes

The Iranian theocratic regime has done nothing but oppress their own people and support terrorism. Fuck the mullahs, the world would be better off without them.

Agree.

And the next time there’s a protest in Iran, I’m pretty certain that the regime will use terms like ‘Zionist insurgents’, ‘threats to security and stability’, and etc.

What the Israel’s indiscriminate bombing of Gaza, US/West’s unconditional support for Israel, and the suppression of pro-Palestine (NOT the fucking Hamas) supports around the world over the last two weeks have done is to strengthen the fascist regimes around the world.

[Iftikhar]

@Sithbare

I meant a hypothetical situation where any country if faced with a terrorist attack of this magnitude and brutality , if the country had superior force of arms , would do the exact same thing.

It’s on what other countries would do if they faced this particular situation.

The actions of Israel which led to the shitshow being what it is aren’t in the equation.

Israel is already saying that this war will take months. If it will take that long, why didn’t they take a different strategy? Israel has an array of sophisticated arms and is backed US/West with more such weapons. Over several months, and with drones, cruise missiles, precision-bombs, special-ops troops, and etc. they could have eliminated the Hamas hierarchy.

Yes, even then there would have been collateral deaths but that wouldn’t have been in thousands. More importantly, they would have had retained the sympathy. If it’s really going to take months, then this mindless killing is just mindless killing.

[Sithbare]

@Iftikhar

Israel is already saying that this war will take months. If it will take that long, why didn’t they take a different strategy? Israel has an array of sophisticated arms and is backed US/West with more such weapons. Over several months, and with drones, cruise missiles, precision-bombs, special-ops troops, and etc. they could have eliminated the Hamas hierarchy.

If they hadn’t covertly enabled the Hamas as a way to ensure the failure of the two state theory , there probably wouldnt have been a terrorist incident of this magnitude.

I made the inference between Israel and Pakistan before. You aid and encourage terrorists, it’s not always necessary that they would only harm your enemies , they would harm you as well.

[redalways]

@Sithbare

I made the inference between Israel and Pakistan before. You aid and encourage terrorists, it’s not always necessary that they would only harm your enemies , they would harm you as well.

I was thinking of this exact analogy this morning. Just like in Pakistan, the citizens of Israel ought to be furious at their governments.

[WeeJoe]

@RedArmada

As for them not invading other countries: not going to give them props for ostensibly respecting international law, when they’ve had a hand at the civil war in Yemen

Nothing in comparison to the billions of £s of arms that UK has supplied to the Saudi coalition that have been used in hundreds of attacks on civilian targets in Yemen. (never mind letting them take over our football clubs to sportswash their murder is regime)

This is my point. We see the speck in others’ eyes but not the log in our own, to quote the Bible.

@RedArmada

The world is right to criticize Iran as it is right to criticize the US, Israel and Hamas. The only ones who are completely blameless are the thousands of civilians on both sides who pay the ultimate price.

Agreed, sadly

[Sithbare]

@redalways

I was thinking of this exact analogy this morning. Just like in Pakistan, the citizens of Israel ought to be furious at their governments.

There are certain similarities between the two countries. Ofcourse major differences too (economical and otherwise)

But the irony is most Indian wankers on social media blindly support Israel without realising that Israel as a country and the rulers more importantly has more similarities with Pakistan’s rulers than with India.