I think there are very few Israeli leaders who believe that there are Palestinian leaders who could deliver that, and very few if any Palestinian leaders who believe that there are Israeli leaders who could deliver that.
Wonât happen.
The birthrates amongst the Palestinians alone compared to the birthrates of the Israelis would bring demographic changes etc into the mix.
The only solution I can think of is to have 2 seperate electorates where Palestinians are given representation. The votes wonât be for the majority but a sizable percentage of votes (fixed) that can be a part of a coalition.
Hopefully thatâs where consensus is formed.
When I was a kid I heard our town explode in a car bomb from my bed. As a teenager I saw 2 policemen have their heads blown off. Peace here feels like a miracle. Itâs imperfect (and threatened by Brexit) but kids nowadays live a completely different life. I agree that Israel/Palestine is on a different level but still hanging on to some hope.
Also, one of the big factors in peace process here was positive support from America, whereas they make everything worse on the Middle East
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So entrench apartheid?
âArabs you can have a vote but itâs not equal to a Jewish vote, ok?â
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I also would not underestimate the influence that the EU and especially the Republic had in creating preconditions for peace, which is far from the case in the Middle East.
Had a long and fascinating conversation on my recent flight from Dublin to Toronto with an older fellow, working class Catholic from Belfast. He was driven from his house in Castlereagh (sp?)sometime around 1970 (his accent was incredibly thick, so I missed details), made homeless with four daughters under the age of 5. Yet there was no hatred in the way he spoke of the Troubles and Protestants, just anger at the people who had actually done him wrong. I have not come across many who can take that sort of view from either the Israeli or the Palestinian side.
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Itâs not nearly an ideal solution. But itâs better than what the situation is right now.
Iâm not sure when youâre talking about Barak if youâre referring to an interview he gave to the BBC on Oct 12 , which I posted earlier in the thread , or maybe statements heâs made since. But in that interview when pressed about the viability of a two state solution today , although keen not to discount it , he did nevertheless describe it as a âvisionâ , that might take another fifty years.
Of course itâs good that he still holds those ideals , and it would be even better were there more like him around , but the truth of it is that the âmainstreamâ of Israeli politics is now the preserve of the centre right and the far right , and those sentiments seem almost quaint when you consider who the people are holding the megaphones in Israel today.
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The mainstream is shifting right in front of us, it appears, just in the past two weeks. A month ago, I donât think Barak would have attracted a great deal of notice, and probably would not have bothered making the statements.
I was thinking of some more recent statements, including yesterday, but I donât think there is any inconsistency.
Hamas canât be destroyed. Militarily, you can kill some of the leaders and destroy their arsenal and other tangible assets. That will probably set them back by a few years. They reportedly have around thirty thousand combatants; how many are you going to kill and detain? But the combatants are just the tip of the iceberg, they have a vast political and social network. They got more votes than Fatah (and that was just a few years after Hamas was formed) in both Gaza and West Bank, thatâs an inexhaustible pool to pick their next leadership. How many are you going to kill and detain. Then, thereâs PA/Fatah/Abbas, to whom Hamas owes their existence and growth. Much has been said about Hamas, their terrorism, and their totalitarian approach. Fact is, as long as the recognized/acceptable leadership of Palestine is the epitome of ineptitude and totalitarianism, Hamas (and donât forget Islamic Jihad who are well-rooted in West Bank too) will find ample room for growth.
Hamas has to crumble from within. Palestine is the Kryptonite of Hamas. The stronger you address this issue, the harder you will hit Hamas (and Abbas).
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Exactly. Put simply, give Palestinians some human rights, a homeland, and some hope for the futureâŚand theyâd have no reason to support armed resistance
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Calling for peace is now a sackable offence. Fucking state of this government 
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Waiting for the inevitable U-turnâŚ
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Tories and Labour want a âhumanitarian pauseâ. A bit like providing a final meal on death row and thinking thatâs humane
People can be members of the ruling/governance wing of Hamas and not be a combatant.
How many would those be if you treat them as terrorists as well ?
This article is a good read for this thread I think.
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Of course the nice thing about that story is that both the presence and absence of stories in other publications can be claimed as evidence of its veracity.
Canadian forces are in Israel, although supposedly only to prepare for potential evacuations from both Israel and Lebanon as well as Gaza. It would not surprise me if British special services were there for similar reasons.
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