The Middle East Thread

The state of these:

They’ve lived through the holocaust and think that Australians should come out in support of Israeli actions while they kill thousands of women and children. Really learnt the wrong lessons there (or more likely their children and Jewish lobby organisers who have put them up to this).

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Interestingly, the Jews accepted the UN proposed Israel which excluded the Judea and Samara.

Hypocrites.

Alan MacLeod on X: "They never show you this map on the news. That's  because it provides the crucial context necessary to anyone wanting to  understand the Israel/Palestine situation. https://t.co/BVRV9jAxps" / X

That amount of land grab by Isreal is a disgrace and as such they should be forced by the international community to return the lands taken back to the palestinian people.

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Aren’t they asking Australians to stop the abuse directed at their community? I don’t see any demand for support of Israeli actions in that open letter.

I know Montreal has recorded more hate incidents directed to Jews (73) since October 7 than hate incidents against all groups (72) in 2022. However, they have also recorded 25 against Muslims, which is an astonishing increase. There are now two communities living in growing fear. Crazy scenes at Concordia University yesterday, open crowd violence.

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I think that ship sailed when Jordan, Egypt, and Syria launched a war of annihilation in 1947 rejecting the partition. Leaving aside the question of whether partition should have happened, after losing a war the defeated don’t really get the privilege of going back to ex ante conditions.

The bitter irony is that if there was an Arab/Muslim population that might have been able to live in a pluralistic secular liberal democratic state in 1947, it would have been Palestine. No tradition of tribal rule, long history of religious pluralism, and some of the highest levels of literacy/education in the Arab world at the time. That war might have been the last real turning point to avoid the next 70 years of bloodshed. After that, the Palestinians have been radicalized, logically enough, but so have Israelis.

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The missing context is that the she and the Belgian Greens did not need Gaza to want those sanctions. Their position has not changed in the past two years.

For demands like this to have any real weight, they need to come from entities that are genuinely reacting to what is happening in Gaza and saying ‘enough’

Nobody will stop Israel from doing what they want. If America can’t stop them (and how much they want to is open to debate) I don’t see anyone else having a chance.

The international community and the UN are toothless. Israel is hi tech, well armed, and a nuclear power (I’m not sure that last part is confirmed, but it is taken as a given).

A watching world is appalled at the disproportionate response to the terrible Hamas attack. Numerous agencies and leaders have spoken out.

But Israel will continue to do whatever it wants. :disappointed:

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There hasn’t been abuse of note. However they are saying Australia hasn’t come out in support of them. It’s a clear attempt to delegitimise any criticism of their actions

Is there an argument that it’s also because there’s a perception that left-wing parties will side with Palestine, and right-wing parties will side with Israel, that nothing much will change until a centre-right party comes out in support of punitive measures?

That said, I can’t see that happening either, not without unleashing the anti-Semites.

A link in the story you provided says there were 37 incidents in the week after October 7, and only one in the week before. I can’t read the original open letter (paywalled at The Australian), but the Guardian precis emphasizes their characterization of what is happening in Australia.

Did you misread the article or are you being disingenuous?

“Never have we, the survivors of the Holocaust felt the need to make a collective statement such as this until now. Never did we think that we would witness a re-enactment of the senseless and virulent hatred of Jews that we faced in Europe. The actions of Hamas are so familiar, so barbaric, yet instead of condemning this, the response across the globe is a shameful spike in antisemitism,” the letter states.”

Unfortunately, I think it is something like that - which is why I see what is happening in the US as critical. Forcing the Biden White House to take a stronger line than behind closed doors disagreement with tactics looks like the only real control variable here.

Funny, that looks to me like a complaint about a spike in antisemitism?

For some wielding a hammer everything looks like a nail. Don’t be so myopic.

:thinking:. There has been 72 incidents of antisemitism (25 of Islamophobia) to 2nd November in Victoria alone.

Surely there’s a case for antisemitism (or Islamophobia or any other clear racial hatred) to be called out?

But just to trigger you, check this article out. https://www.australianjewishnews.com/antisemitism-surges-across-australia/

Their figure of 100 incidents of antisemitism can’t exactly be trusted if they are counting a poster of a Bibi mask over Hitler’s face. What the hell does that have to do with racial hatred? Seems pretty accurate to me if anything.

Eerily similar numbers to Montreal…

Believing Netanyahu to be a cunt is not the same as antisemitism.

Why can’t people understand this?

Oh- I know. It’s because they’re fuckwits.

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It’s bollocks. The real crime is murdering children in Gaza not calling it (and supporters of it) out. The Jewish lobby is just obscene and those trying to reason with their position are disgraceful

The specific complaint is the Hitler analogy, which some groups argue is inherently antisemitic. For me, in the era of Godwin’s Law, invoking Hitler is more likely to be stupid than antisemitic

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