The Owners - FSG (Part 2)

[jabu]

@RedArmada

Unless I’m wrong, FSG reserve the right to decline said option. If that’s the case, it is up to FSG to determine whether or not any future investments into the club end up as an asset of 1892 Holdings.

I think the sale is structured so that Fenway Sports Group (FSG) cannot unilaterally block 1892 Holdings from taking majority control if specific performance and valuation targets are met.

[JohnnyTheGerman]

@Bonus

I’m undecided on whether its good or bad…

need to read more into it and hear from the co owners…

@jabu

a bit long, my apologies:

Liverpool, “working class,” and a moral compass that only points one way

Everyone’s furious at Bezos joining the shareholder register, but a moral compass only means something if you swing it at your own side too. Let’s look at a little history here.

Liverpool’s most “authentically ours” era, David Moores as chairman, 1991 to 2007 ran on Littlewoods money, a fortune built on the football pools, a betting operation that pulled weekly stakes out of the same working-class communities the club claims to represent. Nobody boycotted then.

Newcastle is owned by Saudi PIF, Man City by Abu Dhabi’s ruling family, PSG by Qatar’s sovereign fund three deals that human rights groups and academics have spent years labeling “sportswashing” outright, each tied to states with well-documented rights records, the football authorities never made a condition of sale. All three fanbases still turn up, still sing the songs.
Saudi PIF also bankrolled LIV Golf, turning journeyman pros into instant multi-millionaires overnight, and nobody cried foul the way they’re crying now; the golfers just cashed the cheque. F1 races in Bahrain and Saudi Arabia every year despite repeated calls from Human Rights Watch and UK parliamentarians for it to account for its human rights record there. Every one of these still packs a stadium, a fairway, or a grid. And this isn’t just sport laundering itself through money it goes to the very top.

Saudi Arabia had a journalist, Jamal Khashoggi, murdered and dismembered in its own consulate in 2018. Two months later, Putin was high-fiving the crown prince at the G20. A few years after that, an American president fist-bumped him on Saudi soil, and by 2025 another one was giving him a full White House state welcome flyover, black-tie dinner, and the line “things happen” when a reporter raised the murder. If heads of state can rehabilitate that fast when it suits the deal on the table, a football fanbase embracing an owner for being merely ruthless, not murderous, is not the scandal of the century.

My own moral compass: I live in the Cayman Islands, and Amazon is where I get many of my kids’ school supplies and other essentials. I’m no Bezos fan, but my hands aren’t clean of the company I’m criticizing either, otherwise a compass that never points at your own convenience isn’t a compass, it’s a weapon.

The moral compass is a funny thing. During slavery, people who signed anti-slavery petitions and preached against it from the pulpit kept buying sugar, cotton, and tobacco grown by enslaved and mistreated black people. The injustice was a few steps removed by the time it reached their table, so it never touched their daily choices. Same moral compass, just centuries earlier.

Ultimately the moral compass or moral outrage is like any tool that gets picked up when it’s useful and put down when it isn’t. We reach for it to condemn the owner we never liked anyway, and we quietly holster it for the one paying our wages, sponsoring our sport, or selling us what we need at 2am. Bezos didn’t break Liverpool’s moral compass. He just became the latest, most convenient place to point it.

Thank you very much for the answers. I have not a oponion to Bezos and Mittal etc. etc.

For me: Liverpool are my friend in UK. I have not the oponion of lot of other German fans.

[odin_telamon]

@JohnnyTheGerman

me: Liverpool are my friend in UK. I have not the oponion of lot of other German fans

The most important German opinions that count are already fans here.

[Sportbilly1966]

Excellent post

[JohnnyTheGerman]

@odin_telamon

The most important German opinions that count are already fans here.

What do you mean?

[jabu]

thanks @Sportbilly1966

[odin_telamon]

The German fans who are members here are the only opinions regarding this club that matters to me,.
@Livvy can confirm any lfc rumour simply by finding out stuff like curtis jones’s hairdresser did have a conversation with jones about milan etc, and curtis’s girlfriend is the force pushing for a move…i jest but livvy is great at tracking down info on twitter /insta etc.

@GermanRed is the oracle of scores, gives good input etc and is active in conversations etc…

Were all here for the same thing, but the specific part i quoted initially was what i replied to, the most important German opinions to me are people already on this forum.

[Sportbilly1966]

I like well thought out posts that make me think and that go against the grain.

We are all guilty of pseudo outrage and then support the person/company that cause the supposed outrage.

However, we can still have a moral compass and not like practices of companies and voice our concerns.

For me I think this investment could add more coffers, long term, to our war chest and increase our pulling power.

[JohnnyTheGerman]

@odin_telamon

The German fans who are members here are the only opinions regarding this club that matters to me,.
@Livvy can confirm any lfc rumour simply by finding out stuff like curtis jones’s hairdresser did have a conversation with jones about milan etc, and curtis’s girlfriend is the firce pushing for a move…i jest but livvy is great at tracking down info on twitter /insta etc.

@GermanRed is the oracle of scores, gives good input etc and is active in conversations etc…

Were all here for the same thing, but the specific part i quoted initially was what i replied to, the most important German ipinions to me are people already on this forum.

And I am a German and for me are matter: Liverpool FC are my friend in UK. I have not a oponion about Bezos or Mittal etc. etc.

[WeeJoe]

@Sithbare

Depends on which countries you go to. Arsenal and Chelsea are huge in Nigeria and Ivory Coast (and the neighbouring countries).

Uganda, Kenya, Rwanda, DRC. Arsenal and Chelsea seem to have by far the most fans. I’d assume it’s different in north/arab Africa

[RedOverTheWater]

I fully respect the right of any good reds to wrestle with this one. I suspect that a few will move away from LFC/football, and that will be a great shame. A few others will heartily embrace the change without too much care or scrutiny.

My guess is that most will be in between those two positions - wrestling with it, but coming to terms with it and carrying on as ardent fans. That’s about where I am.

I am concerned about Bezos, his employment practices, his vast wealth and accompanying influence. I’m not so concerned about him politically - on that score he’s a bit of a chameleon for me, or maybe a weak man, just doing what is expedient to ride out the orange gobshite’s time. It’s not very laudable, as I would love to see a principled stance, but he’s not a maga believer/fascist in the same sort of sense that Musk would be. It would be impossible to get such a careful man to say it, but I’m pretty sure he thinks Trump is an idiot.

Anyway, the reason I can live with it is because it’s just an extension of where the game has long been. We have been owned by billionaires for the past 16 years who have grown the club at all levels and boosted the revenue to the point that we were just the number one in the Premier League. We are a giant. A self-sustaining giant. Big money has been a big part of the game for the longest time.

I see the consortium as being well placed to help boost global revenue streams back into LFC, and yes, of course they will make their own money too, just as FSG have. But if the goal is to continue to make LFC bigger and better, through legitimate means within the rules, so we can compete at the top end for the duration, I’m fine with that.

It’s just an extension of where we have been to date.

Obviously I reserve the right to protest, or stop supporting it altogether if something comes along that violates my conscience to that degree. On a personal note, this is not that. But I’m watching closely to see what happens, as I’m sure most good reds are.

[Arminius]

@RedArmada

Unless I’m wrong, FSG reserve the right to decline said option. If that’s the case, it is up to FSG to determine whether or not any future investments into the club end up as an asset of 1892 Holdings.

As @jabu has noted, the reports about the deal suggest that FSG does not have that right, so any outside capital they put into the club during that time does not increase the sale price.

[RedOverTheWater]

One other thought I’m trying to wrap my arms around is this: who is Liverpool Football Club?

It seems there are various facets to that answer. It is the fans, and what the bulk of us stand for, the stories, the songs, the history, the glory, the tragedy, the hope we carry in our hearts and more besides. It’s a local, passionate core, often passed down the generations, that sets the tone that ripples around the world for global fans to embrace. There is something magical about the big nights when the fans sucked a goal or two in, and spurred the team on to great heights. That sort of mystique goes way beyond money and is part of the appeal for more and more fans to join. It’s taps into something important about the human condition. So yes, LFC is the fans. But it’s more than that.

LFC is also the players, the squad, the team. Look at all the threads on any discussion board, and the bulk of it is about the actual action - who is playing, who is not playing, what is the team shape, what are the tactics, who do we need to sign to be better, who can we afford to let go, what kids are coming through, etc. This is an inexhaustible list of interest and joy for fans to pore over, and that will always be the case. So LFC is the fans and it is also the team/players/game itself. But again, there is more to it than that.

Here’s the part that we are currently wrestling with. LFC is also the owners and directors. Foolish owners think that it is truly theirs, and while it is, in terms of name on the deed, and shares owned and so on, they would be unwise to not see it as much bigger than that. Wise owners will realize that they are more custodian than owner. Yes, they have the ‘asset’ for a time, but LFC was here before them and it will be here after them. Their job as custodians is to be good stewards, so LFC can compete as well as possible. The well known quip says that LFC exists to win trophies. At its core I agree - but the reality of the game as is, and for generations now, is that you are not going to compete or win anything if you are not well resourced.

We have built everything up the right way. We are not a nation state or despot funded. We are not riddled with debt that is loaded onto the club and crushing us. The owners and directors have done it the right way, and they have been good, but not perfect.

On that point my hope is the group coming in will take a leaf out of their book. I’m not expecting Bezos to sit there with his LFC mug pretending to be a lifelong fan, like that idiot Tom Hicks did in his Dallas mansion in front of the fireplace. It was awful PR. But I do carry a hope that as the new consortium gets their feet under the table, they will see how special it all is, and they will feel something that inspires them to be good custodians for their time.

Long post, but I’ve been wrestling with the question, who is LFC?

The lane I’m in is as a fan. I will continue to enjoy it, as much as I can, as it has been a lifelong love affair. I will continue to pore over the myriad details that come with the game itself, and the players.

As for the ownership side, I can only hope they will be good custodians. If that is an extension of what we’ve seen from FSG for the past 16 years, I’ll be fine with that. But we’re watching. Hundreds of millions of global fans are watching. Let’s see what they do.

[JustHitMyHead]

@Arminius

As @jabu has noted, the reports about the deal suggest that FSG does not have that right, so any outside capital they put into the club during that time does not increase the sale price.

I would think that any decent lawyer (and they will have a team of them) would have thought of this because it is a very routine scenario and accounted for it somewhere in the agreement.

I’m not concerned. Both sides have a vested interest in the club doing well so there will be some sort of mechanism.

[Arminius]

I don’t think it is that complicated. The price paid for the minority share is not intended as an investment in the club. Both parties are represented on the Board now, so can discuss terms of any investments in the club, be it debt or equity financed.

[GermanRed]

TOP 10 BIGGEST SHIRT SPONSORSHIP DEALS 2025-2026

1. Real Madrid (Spain) Fly Emirates – €70 million
2. Barcelona (Spain) Spotify – €70 million
3. Manchester United (England) Snapdragon – €70 million
4. PSG (France) Qatar Airways – €70 million
5. Juventus (Italy) Jeep – €69 million
6. Manchester City (England) Etihad Airways – €65 million
7. Bayern Munich (Germany) T-Mobile – €65 million
8. Liverpool (England) Standard Chartered – €58,5 million
9. Arsenal (England) Fly Emirates – €58,5 million
10. Tottenham Hotspur (England) AIA – €45 million

The Standard Chartered Deal expires at the end of the season and I think it was already confirmed that Amazon being our next shirt sponsor would be within the rules but wouldn’t it be controversial (similar to what we think about PSG and Man City’s shirt deals)?

Not sure how many other top teams need a new shirt sponsor next year but it wouldn’t surprise me if someone breaks the €100m a year barrier.

I might be wrong with this but I believe the money from those deals plays a huge part in what a club can use in the transfer market.

[RedOverTheWater]

When we shop for a new shirt sponsor, if it is Amazon, bring it on, so long as the cost can be justified. Arsenal and Man City have done some dodgy dealings with Emirates and Etihad, especially the latter, but to my mind so long as the costs could be justified and Amazon is the preferred bidder, bring it on.

If we jump from less than 60M to 400M or something stupid like that, then we are no better than Man City. But if Amazon brings us a good increase, in keeping with the continued growth of the game and LFC in particular, it wouldn’t be controversial… though I fully expect other fans to engage in false equivalence and so on.

[RedArmada]

There is a quote from Joyce saying that there is no commitment from FSG to sell a greater shareholding.

If he’s wrong and the reports about FSG not being able to block 1892 from taking control are accurate, which is more than likely, that means that it’s a matter of when Bhatia and his group take over, not if.

[RedOverTheWater]

My understanding is the new consortium has the right to take control in 12 months, at a predetermined valuation of $8 Billion.

I think it was reported in the business media over here - CNBC?

That aspect of the deal will be on the down low in the FSG messaging to UK outlets, as potentially it could scare the horses. Instead, the better strategy is to sell a large minority, help as many fans as possible see that it’s not such a bad thing and is business as usual, and then see the full transfer go through.

[jabu]

exactly this. i did post yesterday about the different messaging from uk sports reporters and how it differed from business reporters based in the usa. however reading reports from sky sports and other uk media, they have edited their reports from yesterday to include that option to buy