Serial winners or penny-pinching frauds?! This way for discussion!
Penny-pinching frauds of course, that’s not even a discussion!
I’d like to be the first to say…
First but, I suspect, unfortunately not the last.
Page 1…might as well mention some of the bigger achievements under their stewardship.
- Premier League Champions 2020 (plus a close 2nd in both 2014 and 2019)
- World Club Cup Champions 2019
- European Champions 2019
- New Main stand built
- Kirkby Training facility under construction
- Hired Jurgen Klopp
- Fired Roy Hodgson
- League Cup 2012
- Let Edwards take over on transfer negotiations.
Hopefully we will see more added to the list.
Serial Winning Frauds?
Don’t say it…
Don’t say it…
Don’t say it…
Don’t say it…
Don’t say it…
Don’t say it…
Where’s the money, John?
Lay off the tomatoes and booze, marra.
If you needed it explaining…
Still don’t fully understand it all, but the take away message for me (pulled out of the comments) is this:
There has been a huge increase in our operating costs, mostly player wages - a £40m growth over 2 seasons, and with the way accounting works equivalent to spending about £200m on new players. This is essential the price of keeping Klopp’s team together.
My own simpleton’s take on this is that we fans need to stop playing footy manager. It doesn’t work like that, and wages are far more important than fees.
As I side note this may be why the Wijnaldum deal is at an impasse.
Our wage bill has remained same while we have taken a £100 millions hit in the revenues due to the Corona.
Pretty much, we are in a very stable Financial position, and could fund player sales by going into our overdraft, or taking loans (which other clubs are doing), but that goes against the business model FSG are operating.
The increase in prize money / TV Revenue is completly absorbed by increases to player costs (Bonus’ etc.)
Hence why we are a sell to buy club, we plough our money into retaining our best players and will only replace them like for like if they want to leave (unlikely).
All in all a massive shift from the days when we constantly lost our best players every summer and replaced them poorly.
For us to be able to spend more we need to increase sponsorship and matchday revenue. Sadly both “on hold” due to COV19.
My big take away is there is a reason our players aren’t lining up trying to go to Spain anymore. We are paying top players top wages.
Ive got no problem about the ownership, however one must ask the following questions:
Why is wijnaldums contract still up for debate? If we pay top wages, then Wijnaldum should have signed by now? Losing him for a free would be a terrible move as we dont recoup any money from him moving, it would just make us Arsenal and how they botched these contract talks for years for some of their players.
Grujic and Wilson are both players prime for sale, and yet they run the risk of sitting on our books , wages paid and not playing games for our squad? Im not saying sell em on the cheap, but there should be another loan move or something to move them off the books right?
I dont believe for one second these players will stay if we dont finish in the top 4 or even dont compete for the league title. What can they actually do to stop the top players for forcing their way out of the club, like Mane or Salah if they wanted to go to Barca or Real? We havent actually seen a proper bid from Real for our players and Barca is only at bay because they screwed up with coutinho and then Griezemann. IF people are saying we are a sell to buy club, logic only dictates we are going to sell Mane or Salah at some point and then use that money on their replacements , rather than add and bolster ranks. Is this the kind of approach we as a fan base want in general? I can understand the frustrations of some fans if that is how we are operating.
Wijnaldum does not want to accept the terms that he was offered, and Liverpool obviously don’t want to alter their terms to give him what he wants. It could be any number of things: base pay vs. performance pay, length of contract, bonuses, the player’s personal career desires/goals, etc. Without being privy to the details of what terms were offered vs. what Wijnaldum is asking for, it’s hard for us to assess whether the club are under-valuing him with their contract offer. This seems to be something that the club have rarely, if ever, gotten wrong in recent years.
There is still nearly a month left in the transfer window and the market has been decidedly slow overall. Plenty of time for these situations to resolve.
The Coutinho transfer should clearly indicate that it’s possible to be successful and sustainable by strategically selling assets that are depreciating (or about to). As of yet there has been no indication that our key players are under threat, and we have acted proactively with contract offers to give ourselves maximum leverage. This combined with the positive (and highly successful) sporting environment means that we hold a lot of cards.
However, the time is likely to come when we would like to make a major transition (among our forwards in particular), and there’s also a likelihood that this coincides with one of them desiring to continue their career elsewhere. If we can navigate that situation in a way that supports our long term stability and competitiveness, I don’t think there is cause for alarm. We’ve already made it to the top. If the alternative is that rebuilding is dependent on the largesse and whims of the ownership, I would much rather sell Salah with some years remaining on his deal than he retires at the club and we have relatively limited resources to reinvest.
Edit: I am also a very big fan of the pathways we are leaving for Academy graduates to play a role in the first team (even if not the first XI). How much more money do we have to dedicate to other areas of the team if at minimum we have Trent and Jones to show for it? If even one of Neco Williams or Ki-Jana Hoever save us Tsimikas-type money for that backup RB spot that’s even better. But the more signings we make for depth/evolution without making space in the squad means that those opportunities are lost.
It’s been reported that he didn’t accept the terms we offered. Maybe he wanted a longer contract, more money, or just wants to give it a go in a different country, seeing as he’s won it all at Liverpool now, and given 5 years of service. It’s always painted as the clubs fault - it can’t always be.
You’re probably right - there’s still a few weeks till the transfer window closes - The club will ensure that moves are made that are best for both the club and the player
The very fact that there’s been no knocking at the door from our top stars shows that all is well and good. If we drop below the Top 4, then yes, maybe some of the lads will want away, in which case, they will command nice hefty transfer fees and we move on - no player bigger than the club, look at the size of fee’s we’ve got for some of our previous best players. Also, yes, at some point, Mane and/or Salah will go - they are unlikely to be here till they retire (not sustainable for the club given their wages), and will also likely be offered higher wages elsewhere in future. That’s football.
Personally I don’t get the frustrations by some fans - beyond the fact that they are impatient and have short term memories.
Edit: Read @Prolix post above too!
The Wijnaldum situation is interesting, and there is a discrepancy in how Milner was offered a new contract on good wages even into his thirties, whereas there is a lack of conviction in wanting to retain Gini in the same way - indications are that’s it’s the contract length that is the issue, not the value.
It makes me wonder about the role of sports science in this. That maybe there is something in Gini’s numbers that suggest we’re not getting four more years at this level.
Or with him and Henderson both being a similar age we don’t really want two players that play the same position, entering the twilight years of their careers on huge contracts at the same time.
Potentially makes for a lot of wages sitting on the bench as we try and refresh that area over the next few years.
It has been reported for a number of months that Gini wants a longer deal than the club are willing to offer, nothing to do with wages. This has presumably been based on what the medical/data analytical teams have fed into.
Loans will probably happen at the last minute. Club would prefer to hold on as long as possible to see whether a sale is possible first.
We’re a ‘sell to buy’ club in the sense that we’ve spent the lions share of our increased revenues on paying big wages to retain our key players (and their fees in large part from transfers out) and don’t have much more room to manouver to pay a large fee or further wage increases. If we want to spend big, it is going to require a lot of selling of fringe players or a big player to leave or a sudden increase in our commercial revenues. We could borrow - but that needs to be paid back and will incur additional costs, reducing future revenues.
Neither FSG or Klopp have been in this position before so we don’t know how well they will handle it. It’s worth remembering that we have quite a few players due to have new contract discussions (I think Allisson and Virgil are due to have discussions soon, and we have several players heading towards their final two years - which could lead to a situation where we become active sellers)
If Hendo’s age was a factor, we wouldn’t be looking at Thiago. Ever since FSG came in they’ve been looking to give out shorter contracts once people are close to hitting 30.