I agree with the premise of this, but I disagree with the assessment of the situation. I think we do have a wealth of options to cope with the normal losses expected in a season, and the depth to rotate to avoid such a situation to begin with. I don’t think there’s much we can do if we do have multiple injuries in the way we did last season, however. At one point we had so few players available we could not even name an 18 without using youth players. Even Kelleher was out for many games.
This is where I think the trauma of the experiences is blinding many of us to the fact that we are actually quite blessed in terms of depth. The teams that we are being compared to cannot take a hit even close to what we did without suffering significantly. Take Chelsea for example. All it takes is one Burnley taking Lukaku out cynically for them to be back to square one with regards to striking options. They had to improve their starting lineup, not so much even prioritising their squad. City have few left back options, and arguably even their centre-back lineup looks thin. Their fans use losing Laporte for half a season as an excuse for why they didn’t win the league, and that was just one player. We were doing fine even after losing Gomez, until the point where Matip simply couldn’t cope with the ongoing injuries he had.
I think we’re fine, for the most part. There’s too much of an expectation that we will be competitive no matter what, but there are few seasons in which such a shitshow happens.
Keep it under your hat, and don’t let the #FSGOUT lot know, but if FSG did as I suggest, then the club would be better off to the tune of £77.5 million (based upon the accounts up to the end of May 2020).
Prior to the Redbird investment, I agreed with FSG’s general approach of lending the club the money for the stadium expansion and other infrastructure projects.
My reasoning being that since FSG weren’t (apparently / overtly) taking any money out of the club and that they were already out of pocket to the tune of £299.351 million plus loss of interest on their investment and the moneys loaned for the Main Stand expansion, they were unlikely to be in a position to put more of their own money into the club.
However the Redbird investment changed that. Only 20% of the Redbird money actually went into the company, N.E.S.V. I, LLC (aka Fenway Sports Group). The remainder, £435 million, was shared out between FSG’s original partners in effect giving them a “dividend” that more than covered the costs of acquiring Liverpool and any subsequent loss of interest.
A 100%+ return on investment in just over 10 years, is not shoddy in anybody’s book.
In effect they have got Liverpool for free, so it’s not unreasonable that they should now spend some of their own money on improving their own asset.
Any idea as to how or what the money has or is being spent on? I saw the original comments by JH about it covering debt and to enable the stadium work to progress in 2022 but nothing beyond that.
I would have liked us to add another forward, but I’m not losing my shit about it, because by now I think we should have a fairly good handle on how FSG, Klopp and the recruitment team works.
They won’t panic, they won’t go far down the list, and they will wait to get the signings they want, even if that means going into the season short staffed. And that approach has served us incredibly well.
Now the dust has settled a bit on last year, I think you can look back and see a familiar pattern with the centre back situation. It seems fairly obvious now that the club were waiting for their target to be available. Konate’s fee puts him around the top ten fees paid for a centre back, and you don’t spend that kind of money on a fourth choice lightly.
I think there was the money available, but the player wasn’t.
So it basically comes down to whether you think the club should be deviating from that plan to get a signing for the short term and then miss out on the player we do want. Or whether you have patience in the process - which is the process that has led us to a league title and European Cup, and built us the best team many of us can remember.
Personally I think that pound for pound we have the best squad in the league. We overstate how deep the squads of our competitors are and we undersell our own capacity. I wouldn’t swap our lot for another team out there.
a) I no longer deal in £. I have decided to do all my dealings in Mbappe’s from now on. So I think £77.5m is about 0.45 Mbappe’s, give or take.
b) That’s an impressive return indeed. I’ll admit I haven’t paid enough attention to the Redbird deal.
c) On that basis I’m in broad agreement with you. I wouldn’t want them to physically buy players but I am all in on them investing in infrastructure. That’s building a strong and solid foundation which is IMO the role of club owners. If that releases funds for “other uses” then even better.
Many thanks for the info. I clearly need to review the Redbird deal.
To be honest, not a clue. But I doubt that £108.6 million will go very far between ourselves, the RedSox and FSG’s other “franchises”, after it is employed in servicing FSG’s debts, not to mention funding any new acquisitions FSG might choose to make.
Yes, in pretty much every position we have excellent back up.
The only 2 places you will see a drop off in is Right Back and Right Forward… Mainly due to the sheer brilliance of the two currently playing those positions.
Like just about everyone else I would have rather we added another forward to increase the depth right now, as well as give us an option to take over the mantle of one of the main men up top as they age out. But I am chilled about the whole thing.
We will be very competitive this season, while we bide our time for the right player/s.
If we have some bad luck with injuries up front, we will definitely be short. It does look a bit vulnerable, but as I look around at our rivals, none of them are perfect either.
If only the general supporter is able to look at this as a long-term plan instead of a “who is playing LW on Sunday?” thought process.
I’ve thought of Elliott as a RW alternate for Salah, instead of a midfielder. it’s quite possible that Klopp was giving him a run of games after a discussion about “Lad, I’d like to see you play before the end of the window. This is your chance to secure your spot. I cannot take Mo out of the game vs Chelsea, so I’ll slot you in behind him with Trent on the right and show me what you can do”
Elliott definitely earned his spot. I suspect now we’ll see Ox and Elliot splitting their time between forward and midfield lines. Naby, Fab, Henderson, Milner, Jones to rotate through those spots as needed.
Is anyone upset that we seem to have left a pathway for Elliott to get playing time this year and grow into the team?
We have improved our scouting under Klopp… not only at the senior level but also at youth level.
At the same time - when it comes to our front 3 - I don’t think there was a good opportunity to change up any of Mane or Firmino at anywhere close to their true value to this team.
Thus, I’m very happy to see the club leaving a 6th attacking position to someone like Elliott and also try and get him games in midfield so he can get enough playing time to continue his development.
Or… even for Kaide Gordon or Musialowski to get some games this season if that would set them up for next season.
As a result, I don’t blame the owners if we have been sticking to a game plan.
I maybe wrong but i’m sure FSG changed our financial year from season to season to January 1st to January 1st,that means we took a hit last year and this year,with this years accounts being just as worse than the last,due to covid.
Even though this seasons books will be better next year 2021-22,as we’ll have a normal season with full stadium revenues and a Nike deal,it doesn’t mean we can go out and spend that money this summer,you’re expecting FSG to spend the cash before its made and spend from future earnings.You know FSG don’t do that,and anyone in football trying to keep their club financially safe will only spend what they earn/can afford.
You’re expecting us to be run like United and City or go toe to toe with them,when financially we can’t do it.From day one FSG have told us how they are going to run us and how we have to be smarter to compete with them,those smarts are to identify the right player,at the right time,at the right price,if it means not buying a half decent player one summer, just to appease fans and save that money for the right player next summer,then thats the way to go,it’s worked almost perfectly since Klopps come in.
You keep talking about our big splurge 3 years ago,like it was FSG dipping into some Man City type funds we had,then every summer after it,when we haven’t spent on a player you think we need or what you’ve assumed we have in the kitty,you get annoyed and keep bringing it up,with total disregard for any plans FSG or Klopp/Edwards may have in place in buying the right player,be it through the selling club not wanting to sell,financial reasons or just the player isn’t ready yet and still raw and needs another season to develope.That SPLURGE was a well thought out,financially safe,smart move that FSG had been talking about,saving money and spending it on the right players at the right time,it was money we already had from not over spending in the previous windows, player sales and a CL final run, not putting debt on the club or taking it from future revenues we hadn’t made.As it worked out,it basically got us world class players and the first 11 we have now for a £100mill spend across 2 seasons accounts (£50mill per season) which is our usual spend,not a splurge.
Even though you know all this and how the club works,i still don’t understand why you expect things to change?? they say insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results,i think i’ve gone insane replying to your posts on this matter.
You know, this is something I’ve been mulling over a lot.
The way some fans have been going on about signings, it’s like they think we should be trying to keep pace with City and Chelsea and Utd.
I absolutely guarantee if we start throwing money around on players in the way they do, they are letting off the party poppers in the City Boardroom.
City, et al, would love nothing more than for us to get into a cash battle with them, because that is a fight we can’t possibly win. The reason we have been able to compete with them is because we’re cleverer than they are. This club has been run to a very smart plan, and the more we deviate from it, the happier they are.
City are terrified of us because they can’t simply outspend us. They aren’t scared of Chelsea or United, because if it comes down to it they’ll just pummel them in the transfer market.
I that some people be thinking ‘I don’t want us to spend like City - I just want a new forward’. That’s fine, but if our main targets aren’t available, or there simply isn’t a player available who fits our spec, what then? Sign someone anyway? That’s clearly not the plan.
I’ll say it again - if you think FSG are withholding money against the wishes of a manager they clearly adore, then you are living in a fantasy world. If Klopp phoned up John Henry are said “John, we desperately need a new forward - can you make some cash available” do you honestly think he wouldn’t?
My thought process is this….Someone to back up Mane or Salah would have been nice but beyond that we are crowding our ranks with players who won’t play.
We’ve been here before though and probably required more than this lot currently requires.
2019-20 didn’t go too badly on the pitch. 7 from 9 is fine, i see on the one side people bigging up a Chelsea team and on the other suggesting they are crap.
The thing is the sending off happens around 50 minutes and Chelsea won’t have the 15 minutes to rebuild themselves. It was a bad situation but improved by the timing.
I think we were too passive in that first 10 after half time and that’s why we didn’t win, but I’m not sure what bringing in someone would have done that doesn’t have issues later.
Irony is this club and Klopp have time and time again proved the doubters wrong. Not signing a sub forward would have improved our situation as I don’t really think a defender replacement for Lovern would have helped us much (especially as that defender could well have been Kabak anyhow).
