Well, true. Broader point is elite player with 6-7 years of that state left. Mbappe probably does want Real…all the more reason to drain their coffers for Salah!
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I think this argument always gets so polarised.
Perfect owners vs terrible owners.
Be prudent, spend as we have vs sportswash ridiculous finances into the club like Man City.
FSG are good owners. No two ways about it looking at the owners out there. There’s very few realistic alternatives that wouldn’t be worse in some way. They’re not perfect though and had done or tried to do some things Liverpools owners shouldn’t. They’re big Corp and trample on the little guy more than I like being their worst sin. But we can and have definitely done worse.
Where I don’t think they have the right view is their risk aversion. They really wanted financial fair play. Desperately. The idea of all clubs being limited to using the self generated funds really appeals to them. But it’s not that simple even if that happened which we know it won’t.
See the thing with that model is that it gets better for them the better LFC are run for the longest possible time so the higher the revenues increase to. A big part being automated by TV deal increases some due to marketing work, rest due to Klopp and the transfer team assembling an exciting team that can compete.
As LFC becomes “better” FSG become worth more by owning us. They’ve now completely recouped every penny of investment put into us through investment into FSG, in fact they’re probably at a profit by now. This is allowing them to seek further expansion and so on.
I’ve never believed FSG have been siphoning money out of us, I mean, sure FSG members may be receiving payments as part of the act of running the club in some way but we aren’t talking about the same situation as at United or our previous owners. That’s never how FSG were going to benefit from owning us. I didn’t expect they’d have made all their money back within roughly 10 years though. And all set to make more. Especially if they ever sell some or all of LFC, talking billion or so maybe now?
But what FSG haven’t done is spend money to make money. Since they took over us they’ve made a on paper profit from owning us. That’s despite us fully being responsible for the finances involved in the infrastructure improvements (which certainly helped raise the FSG valuation and attract investors). Those profits don’t ever seem to be carried over into future years with each years financial accounts treated separately.
The £200+ million spent on infrastructure and whatever has been spent on the academy they are allowed, even encouraged, under FFP to spend extra without breaching the mythical rules we may never see again anyway. FSG certainly could have “foot the bill” for those costs and been compensated by the investment we’ve seen and future investment that may yet come.
There’s been no “saving for a rainy day” attitude with the leeway that our rosey financial picture has given us. If anything we’ve paid off finances faster than required here and there paying out tens of millions before we had to in the process saving a couple of million in interest charges per year. Even last set of full accounts, despite around £35 million in revenue delayed to this year’s finances we still reported a loss at a similar level to the credit facility we took out due to covid concerns only to pay back within the same financial year, around £50m.
There has been a lot of leeway created, we don’t need to spend like City but certainly the year we won the CL onwards we could easily have funded a reasonable purchase or two extra per year without harming the books or costing FSG money they wouldn’t get back quickly.
How much better to pay a couple of million in interest last year, this year and the following two for instance and have that £50 million at our disposal last season when it seems Klopp wanted investment into central defence as well as Thiago in the summer but was only allowed to commit to one or the other? Or in the winter when Klopp got so frustrated he let the cat out the bag (something a man like him would do anything to avoid) by telling the world he’d recommended the need to strengthen at CB and he wasn’t allowed to till Matip went out injured.
Those choices could have cost LFC somewhere between £50-100 million in revenues from CL along with making us sightly less desirable a location. All to not have too much finances outstanding if we could avoid it and save what we probably £5-10m in interest.
That’s just one obvious example of how the reluctance to back with LFC finances could be having a negative impact.
We’ve got the best manager in the world, some of the best player acquisition ever, certainly contender for the best player improvement going and some true world class players like Alisson, VvD, Trent, Salah and Mane to name a few. Klopps been here over 6 years now, this will be his 5th full season and he had most of the one before. We may only have him for as little as 2 more. He’s won trophies in 2 seasons. The big 2 one each.
This guy and these players he’s put together and improved deserve more than that. This could have been our Morinho at Chelsea, Shankley or Paisley style period of unmitigated success.
It’s not all about money. But it’s a big component and we are seriously underspending. With a little more freedom how many more trophies could this guy have won us? How much more value growth could here have driven leading to more investment for FSG?
I feel FSG are good owners but I also feel they aren’t brave owners, never backing their star man with a bet they can’t afford to lose. Like me, I’m no gambler, if I put a bet one it’s great when I win but I never put money on that I’ll feel like I can’t afford to lose. But FSG had a sure thing. He’s still won even still.
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Isn’t it somewhat perverse to suggest they are too risk adverse, and then try to hold them to account for things that could have but did not in fact happen?
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Not just that, the entire post just boils down to, why aren’t FSG spending more???
Which has been explained to this poster countless times, especially over his wilful misinterpretation of club finances.
Also, the irony of criticising the same methods that have brought us the success we’ve had in the last few years, not acknowledging that bar the freak incident of losing all our centrebacks until 7th and 8th choice was the main reason why we went from defending our title to “just” being 3rd.
Reminds me of what @Mascot said earlier about spending over trophy haul…
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It was a miracle we made Champions League last season. Without miracles from Klopp and collapses at other clubs (outside our control) we’d have never made it. The decision by FSG was the equivalent of a penny pincher only topping his petrol tank up a tiny bit and taking a chance on getting home before it ran out. He doesn’t know he’ll make it home but he’ll prefer to use his own money to top up a little than put more on the credit card and pay interest. He trusts his unbelievably economical car to see him home but risks the costs of call out fees etc. If he’s misjudged it. Then being smug about it when the car makes it onto the driveway running on the last fumes.
So you deny our most successful period under Klopp came directly after back to back years of spending? Money really doesn’t matter at all? Do you ever complain about City.
Please highlight anything in my post that is incorrect regarding finances and FFP.
And the whole point isn’t being happy because we haven’t won enough trophies. The attitude you’re actually accusing me of is actually more like being happy with our squad playing fantastic football and being smug because we spend our money better.
And it’s LFCs money not FSGs. As explained on the post they’ve had their money back. Hell we’ve even paid back the loans they’ve made to us.
Well, I would not call that risk adversity, at the very least.
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How about we trust the manager to decide what backing is needed. Do you honestly think that if Jurgen Klopp felt investment was needed in the squad, it wouldn’t be forthcoming?
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We didn’t spend anything the summer before we won the league.
Why does that matter? Because our approach is entirely about prudent team-building, rather than spending for the sake of spending.
I really can’t be bothered. You’re a broken record who doesn’t admit when they’re wrong anyway, and this has been covered over and over and over again by different posters, especially when you were spouting nonsense about our accounts and COVID.
Yet this is the first time that you’re making the distinction. If it’s LFC’s money, it’s LFC’s to spend. Yet strangely enough the people running the club and the manager seem to agree that we are currently on the right approach. As @Mascot said above, you’re really just complaining that Jürgen doesn’t want to spend, if you’re complaining that the club doesn’t want to spend.
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No, quite obviously he’s the great saviour holding back the tide of people trying to ruin the club from within.
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By the way, just on the centre back thing last season, am I the only person who thinks that with the benefit of hindsight, Konate was the long term target and the club were clearly waiting to be able to get him?
I don’t really understand the idea that Klopp was forced to choose between a centre back and Thiago. Making do to wait for the lad you really want would be a very Klopp thing to do.
I’m reminded of that time the Van Dijk deal collapsed and fans were pissing their knickers begging the club to sign any old fucker.
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Why is it either Konate or someone else? Could it not have been both?
??? What do you mean
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To pretend that fsg aren’t good custodians for the club, or even donkeys, is a bit rich to be honest. Compare them to our previous ownerships:
- Moores and Parry, during their reign which lasted more than twenty years, rebuilt Melwood, but otherwise did fuck all to improve the club’s structure during their time. As a result we fell back massively behind other clubs, especially Man Utd, who never stopped improving, enhancing OT among others, and became the super-club of the pre-oil club era, and still are a financial behemoth when compared to LFC. Parry and Moores managed us from a position of strength in 1991 to a perennial position of also-rans, only interrupted when Rafa brought us number 5 in Europe, in a somewhat fortuitous way.
- g+h almost brought the club to it’s knees during their short stint with us, by taking money out of it while investing nothing. We can count ourselves lucky that Rafa managed to soften what would otherwise have been a fatal blow. They were vultures and probably the worst owners of the PL era full stop.
Now let’s see what fsg have brought us in roughly ten years ownership:
- a new beautiful and state-of-the-art main stand, while maintaining the unique atmosphere of Anfield. I’ll never thank them enough for that, it was a masterstroke, and not an easy one to achieve.
- the best gaffer since Paisley retired imo, the single-best coach they could have hired for us, given the special circumstances we were under when he came to us. Klopp didn’t come to Liverpool by chance, but because fsg created an environment attractive enough to lure him to us. As a result, we’ve enjoyed six years of the very best and exciting football you can see worldwide, with absolute unique players gracing the Anfield pitch. Thanks for that, fsg.
- as a result of this inspired signing (as well as progressively putting in place a competitive support structure for Klopp and an efficient board), we won number 6 in Europe by being by far the best team at that moment when having to contest double ties. We still are a highly competitive team in Europe, with a good chance to be there or thereabouts in May.
- one year later, we got the hoodoo off our backs and won number 19, our first league title since 1991. It was overdue, especially as we went to 96 points the season before, and were only beaten by that super-money doped cheater club, by one little point.
- the unification of Melwood and Kirkby, one of the longest ongoing problems at the club, holding us back for decades. As we speak, our junior and senior players all train at the same place, in a beautiful new training complex, state-of-the-art by all records.
- soon, Anfield will be expanded from originally 43k to 60k with the new ARE stand to be completed next year.
- we have a solid, financially solid club, not relying on some sugar-daddy or on an oil-state, as the annual budget comes from what the club gains, as it should. The owners loaned us the money to build the stands and the training complex, with 0% interest. It’s steadily repaid with the benefits the club makes. We stay on our both feet financially, which means that if a change of ownership happens at some point (hopefully as late as possible), the new ownership will find a stable, competitive club to thrive with.
- we are back from our decades-lasting ‘sleeping giant’ status to a football giant full stop, a club every other club in England and Europe fears and respects.
Honestly, looking at this list, it’s not that bad for a bunch of donkeys.
(Edit: it’s not directly a response to you btw, @Neukölln. I agree with your point about money changing and polluting everything.)
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I hereby dub thee, chicken little.
at what point did you hop on the club’s payroll FFS? reel it in a bit, you’re pissing everyone off.
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Are you saying he’s right…?
it doesn’t matter what I think. that’s the whole point. The sky is falling!
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(I’m not actually familiar with Chicken Little)
You realise that is the point of a loan correct?
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