I’m not sure anyone is arguing against this. It’s a balance and Klopp has almost always got it right but it’s clear if any mistakes have been made it’s holding on to injury prone, ageing players too long. Milner while fantastic is no Luka Modric.
To compare Arsenal to LFC is laughable for various reasons.
There is no question that what Arsenal did worked. They don’t need to win the league to demonstrate that it was right to take short term hits to get themselves out of a hole the previous 4-5 years of mismanaging had made for them. They might not win the league this year, or if they do there is no guarantee they are challengers next year. But that isnt the bar to demonstrate they made the right choices from where they were.
The reason comparing ourselves to Arsenal is absurd is because we were a team 2 games (fuck, maybe even only 2 goals) from immortality. Arsenal were a basket case of a side, full of players who could not turn you into a contending side so were a mile from being competitive, and with players actively engaged in conflict with their owns fans.
I’ve said the same on many an occasion. But, it is not FSG that is choosing to keep those players around and that was the crux of this discussion.
It is Klopp choosing to keep Ox and Keita around and barely use them. And that’s not because he’s not got funds to replace them if they were sold or released. The Tchouameni pursuit and the acquisitions of Nunez and Gakpo show there has been money to spend.
If fingers want to be pointed at anyone for not being ruthless enough when it comes to moving players on then they shouldn’t be in FSG’s direction. You wouldn’t want them making those decisions anyway.
Fair play to Arsenal for ripping things up and starting again. But it’s taken them years to correct their issues and people seem to think we can fix ours in one good window.
One goal…hell, one missed penalty away from winning the league (Mo at Leicester).
If I have understood it correct, it’s that the owners didn’t fund enough else Klopp would have replaced many more players while now he is restricted to getting only Darwin Gakpo and Diaz. That somehow has nothing to do with Klopp’s say in it is why it’s all FSGs fault.
Agreed, which is why I rounded off the comment by saying that even if you agree with the arguments they don’t belong in the owners’ thread.
Devil’s advocate (i.e., I’m not sure how much I actually agree with the following): isn’t it their responsibility to appoint and empower a sufficiently strong Director of Football to make those decisions?
That being said, I had a feeling for a while that it was perhaps Edwards who got too precious about only selling for “value”, valuations that seemingly became prohibitive and self-defeating.
If we’re arguing that, then the decisions were made with Edwards and then Ward in position. If you want to put some of the decisions at Edwards’ feet you might argue this thread, for lack of anywhere else to put them, is appropriate. But even that isnt really what the owners are getting stick for when stick is thrown their way
Which was my point.
That’s so they can’t get injured before we sell them. Genius thinking because it’s not like they’re at the end of their contracts……
I do, yes! I bloody love a good boo I do. 
Of course it’s a footy forum and everyone can talk about what they like. I’m not a mod, just a poster and reader. As a reader I keep reading the same points being made as we continue to prosecute the past.
I see there is talk of Aubameyang issue is, Fabinho was looking ropey but not spent, Henderson seemed fine for most of last season.
No player looks like they did last season, the major issues here is Klopp didn’t spend on a CM when he lost out on Touchemani ( though he’s missed a few periods of the season).
You can talk about data and information and all that but we simply don’t know what it was saying. Having said that Aubameyang had been garbage for a lot longer than the period in which they shipped him out he was looking ropey for about a year before that who knows what Chelsea were thinking but that goes for a fair bit of they output.
Or perhaps no one wanted them?
Very unfair. Considering their fitness, I doubt anyone was interested in buying them. It’s not like Klopp has turned down offers for Ox or Keita.
if a player has a contract the club can not do much to get rid.
Klopp does not force out players he brought in himself.
Some posters act like they are experts in everything but not even able to understand those two simple rules.
Maybe they should make their contracts like phone or sky sports a months notice and they can leave.
We did. He chose to move on. His replacement is moving on after a year. A bunch of the data team are also moving on.
Now we’ll never know for sure exactly why but it’s been rumoured that some of that might be as a result of being marginalised. Ultimately, if Klopp says he wants a new contract for Henderson and the DoF doesn’t agree, Klopp is far more likely to get his way.
Maybe Ward or Edwards have been advocating for keeping these players around and Klopp has agreed. I don’t see it personally but then it’s not just the team on the pitch that’s reached the end of a cycle and needs new additions.
Very true but that wasn’t the debate. The point I was addressing was that Arsenal were ruthless in getting rid of players they weren’t getting value from by terminating deals early.
I don’t believe we couldn’t have found some kind of offer for Ox or Keita last summer if we’d made it clear they were surplus to requirements. Had we got Tchouameni I doubt we’d have not got rid of someone, even if it meant paying some wages for a year.
And we did reportedly have an offer for Keita in January by all accounts. Not an ideal time to get rid sure but again, if Klopp was done with them, the way Arteta was with Auba for example, then we’d surely have taken that offer.
Anyway, point is we didn’t appear to make much effort to move anyone on or players being given deals against Klopp’s wishes. He has to shoulder some blame for being overly loyal to some players that should have moved on a while ago one way or another.
You’re not allowed to do that if you happen to wake up one morning and decide you don’t like a player anymore. It’s called a contract for a reason.
Oh God…for all the good we have done, the owners, Klopp, the club, for the last 6-7 seasons and yet here we are now, worse off than Arsenal. Arsenal is doing great this season and nothing wrong to say it is as it is. But to now put ourselves down and making it as if Arsenal was the one getting it right for the last 6-7 seasons and not us. We have been bad this season and we need to improve but there is no need to wipe away our success formula just to say that.