The Unreliable LFC Transfer Rumours Discussion Thread (Part 3)

[redalways]

@Sithbare

You should take your own advice.

@Sithbare

And stop deluding yourself that you’ve got a modicum of common sense.

You don’t.

Sorry for being the guy who points out the obvious.

Did someone hurt your precious feefees?

News to you: common sense does not exist. What you think of as a “common sense” is just the occasions on which you happen to conform to societal norms and beliefs of how the world works.

EDIT: To help you out on this, my initial reply to you came on the back of your wholly unsubstantiated fantasy post pointing out the factual errors contained within. I hold myself to a higher standard than I hold others to, so I actually painstakingly check each claim I make, and be clear when I am aware that it is either an opinion I am expressing, or an unsubstantiated claim. Feel free to browse my posting history if you disagree.

[Retro_Helix]

We are about to win the biggest trophy of all and all I see is arguing about whether we could have been better.

[redalways]

@Zoran

We went into the season with 8 defenders, 4 CB’s.

The numbers we started the season with were absolutely fine. I do agree for a while now that reinforcements are needed in defence. During that time, we had other priorities as well though.

While your point may be correct, the facts of this season don’t bear that out.

Our key injuries have come at right-back not centre-back. If I remember correctly Alexander-Arnold came back from injury right as Bradley got injured, and vice-versa, a couple of times this season so there wasn’t really the opportunity to ease them back in slowly. I remember reading that he has been playing with pain-killing injections too (although I can’t find any primary sources to verify that).

At centre-back, apart from having to shuffle one of our players out, I’m not sure anyone of the profile we’d like to target (young, high potential while having great ability already) would come without the expectation to displace one of Konaté or van Dijk.

[mackie]

@Sithbare

And stop deluding yourself that you’ve got a modicum of common sense.

You don’t.

Sorry for being the guy who points out the obvious.

Please consider having a look at yourself, you’re coming across as arrogant and “know it all” mixing opinions for facts.

This thread is turning into something uncomfortable for no reason, it would be nice if both you and @redalways de-escalate.

[Walshy07]

Im now at the age where for every 10 players we are linked with ive not heard of 9 of them!!

[redalways]

I don’t usually care to pay attention to most players that aren’t Liverpool players unless they’re mentioned quite a fair bit on TAN (and its TIA predecessor). There was a time when I would obsessively follow all the random made-up transfer rumours (the classic Silva/Villa era) but now I just can’t be bothered and wait for announcements from the club.

If they’re not a player of ours, why bother?

[Zoran]

Young, high potential with great ability already obviously not, that’s incredibly rare.

For sure there are players good enough for us, better (already) or with more potential than some we have who would accept and embrace the opportunity that they’re not coming to the champions of England and one of the best teams in Europe to be an immediate starter.

Unless Konate is going due to his contract situation or whatever, then we know we’re signing someone to come in immediately (with a question mark whether that player would be ready, with the likes of Gomez and Quansah in backup… yeah).

Virgil’s age and Konate’s profile and contract situation means that we are looking at it, it’s just responsible and “every day” life at a club like Liverpool. Nothing new, nothing shocking.

We know who the starters are in most positions (and usually you don’t rotate too much in defence), but I expect us to add better competition and then as always, it’s battle for game time. Also partly planning for the future.

Konate is a very good player when in form and I think Slot grew to like him over the season even with his somewhat limited ability on the ball. Hence why Quansah got the nod for the very start of the season, but very soon dropped out. But Konate’s availability isn’t great for a physical CB in some of his most potent years.

You don’t want a situation where Konate (and Virgil) starts every game he can stand on two feet, regardless of form, pain (okay, many players play through certain pain, but it has it’s levels and limits - he wouldn’t play if the staff consider he cannot, from what they know), missing some games and stylistical aspects.

[redalways]

@Zoran

Young, high potential with great ability already obviously not, that’s incredibly rare.

I meant someone like Konaté when he came to us.

@Zoran

For sure there are players good enough for us, better (already) or with more potential than some we have who would accept and embrace the opportunity that they’re not coming to the champions of England and one of the best teams in Europe to be an immediate starter.

Are there? I’d seriously question them if that was the case, unless they’re around the age of Quansah.

@Zoran

Virgil’s age and Konate’s profile and contract situation means that we are looking at it, it’s just responsible and “every day” life at a club like Liverpool. Nothing new, nothing shocking.

I agree that it’s important, but I feel as though Konaté’s contract situation was a matter of waiting around to see how the contracts of the big 3 are decided. He’s at a similar age to Alexander-Arnold, so it’s a vital contract stage for him.

@Zoran

You don’t want a situation where Konate (and Virgil) starts every game he can stand on two feet, regardless of form, pain (okay, many players play through certain pain, but it has it’s levels and limits - he wouldn’t play if the staff consider he cannot, from what they know), missing some games and stylistical aspects.

You don’t, but I think I had this discussion with you (or perhaps someone else) a while back, that we pretty much only have room for 4 centre-backs unless they’re someone like Quansah at the start of last season, because there just aren’t that many games in a season to satisfy everyone.

On the whole I think we do agree, and I think if Huijsen or someone similar in age profile was available we’d probably look to do a deferred deal, where we leave them on loan with their current club for a season like we did with Keïta and Mamardashvili before bringing them in the next season, to slowly ease their way into the team while shuffling van Dijk out of the door.

[Mascot]

@Sithbare

@redalways

No team carries 5 centre-backs who expect semi-regular game time.

People who can play CB for Arsenal.

By that logic we have seven.

[Sithbare]

Who ?

[Zoran]

Konate didn’t have great ability when he came to us. He’ll never have great ability. Game of words, but someone who is young, high potential and already great is just… rare. That’s not Konate or his career so far.

But yeah, it’s not the first time we would invest in someone who wouldn’t necessarily be an immediate starter, but provide better quality, better competition (you can have new starters, it’s not impossible that a “Huijsen” comes in and actually displaces Konate) and partly a serious option for the future.

Of course there are, it’s a matter of deciding when is the time to do it (we tried to squeeze for a few years in defence while focusing on other areas, getting some help from the likes of Bradley and Quansah) and then also the market plays a part in it.

We got Agger (wanted Vidic in that window) when Hyypia was still a starter, we got Skrtel (like a lesser version of Vidic) when Carra was in his prime. I don’t think I need to go on, from almost whichever period. Qualities can vary, but principles remain the same.

Probably with someone else. The discussion we had was that there are starters in most positions when you have a settled team and squad and there is no mess or unsuccessful era. Konate or Gomez/Quansah in some sort of imaginary rotation isn’t a decision that is just falling from the sky. Like that was a hard decision… there was a decision, all the way back on matchday 1 at half-time. Konate didn’t look back since then.

I think Slot will rotate a bit more with time but also when he has more quality in that depth, which will enable him to trust other players more.

I agree that 4 CB’s and 8 defenders (provided we play 4 at the back) is normally enough, optimal numbers. I always say that. Then it depends and you look at what exactly you have in those 8 defenders in terms of quality, experience, style, versatility. I don’t think the 4th CB option has to be a too young talented player who is just happy to be in the matchday squad or Nat Phillips type of “what am I doing here, this is incredible” case. We’re battling on multiple fronts. We’re not carrying 10+ defenders.

It doesn’t have to be Huijsen, I do doubt with him, mostly due to his clause (Bournemouth probably want a very quick deal so they can go chasing a new “Huijsen”) and the amount of interest, whether we as a club would be willing to immediately splash close to £100m (not so much because of the amount, but the timing of it and you want to leave a bit of room for unexpected events later in the market) on Kerkez and Huijsen. There is need for both, but there is more need for the first (a LB).

[Mascot]

@Sithbare

Who ?

Van Dijk, Konate, Gomez, Quansah, Endo, Gravenberch, Robertson.

That’s makes about as much sense as sticking up a graphic of all the lads who theoretically could play centre back for Arsenal, but never do.

By the way, a bone of contention for Arsenal Fans is how many defensive players Arteta buys, when the desperately need forwards.

(And while I’m on, wind your neck in please. You are skirting close to some time off for how you are talking to people in this discussion. It’s totally unnecessary)

[LondonRich]

I am not sure why Konate gets such a bad wrap! Seems to me to be one of the best CBs in the league. Okay - an odd mistake, a few injuries and sometimes looks a bit clumsy.

But strong, fast, decent for our high line. I rate him. Find me many better.

[Mascot]

@Zoran

Konate didn’t have great ability when he came to us. He’ll never have great ability. Game of words, but someone who is young, high potential and already great is just… rare. That’s not Konate or his career so far.

The other point on Konate is that he has two years left, and seems to want to be in the top wage bracket to sign another contract. The club may have him earmarked to move on this year or next.

[Zoran]

One year left.

[Mascot]

@Zoran

One year left.

There you go then!

[Zoran]

Don’t know if that’s aimed at me, but being very good when in form is not a bad wrap, is it? Nobody is saying he’s average or not good enough. I’d love us to continue with him (on acceptable enough wages) and also add a new injection of quality.

[LondonRich]

No aimed at you sorry! Just seems everyone wants to replace him!

[redalways]

@Zoran

Konate didn’t have great ability when he came to us. He’ll never have great ability. Game of words, but someone who is young, high potential and already great is just… rare. That’s not Konate or his career so far.

But yeah, it’s not the first time we would invest in someone who wouldn’t necessarily be an immediate starter, but provide better quality, better competition (you can have new starters, it’s not impossible that a “Huijsen” comes in and actually displaces Konate) and partly a serious option for the future.

I don’t mean “great” as in will be named in a World XI. I mean great as in will slot into a side challenging for the title without looking out of place, which Konaté did in his first season. By that metric I’d classify 2019-20 Joe Gomez as great too.

@Zoran

Of course there are, it’s a matter of deciding when is the time to do it (we tried to squeeze for a few years in defence while focusing on other areas, getting some help from the likes of Bradley and Quansah) and then also the market plays a part in it.

You seem inordinately obsessed with the idea that we need to buy a new player in each line of the squad every single season. “Getting some help from the likes of Bradley and Quansah” is equivalent to saying that we don’t need to invest in midfield because we “got some help from the likes of Jones” or that “we got some help from the likes of Alexaner-Arnold”. It’s an absurd take. A good player is a good player no matter how we come across them.

We haven’t bought anyone new because we haven’t needed to, and the opportunity to grab someone we thought was worth it wasn’t there. All the flavours of the month are constantly being touted only for the club to make the right decision virtually every single time. Look at the summer of 2020 and see where all the centre-back we were linked to that summer are now. None of them are at a particularly high level, while we waited and got Konaté. You can argue that the left-back situation needs an action now, and I’d be inclined to agree. you can argue that we need someone in at right-back because Alexander-Arnold is leaving, and I’d point out that Bradley has been more than capable in the past couple of seasons. We need someone to be his backup for sure, but to argue that otherwise we need to buy is just looking for transfers for the sake of transfers no matter how much you try to deny it.

@Zoran

We got Agger (wanted Vidic in that window) when Hyypia was still a starter, we got Skrtel (like a lesser version of Vidic) when Carra was in his prime. I don’t think I need to go on, from almost whichever period. Qualities can vary, but principles remain the same.

No you don’t, because the situations are vastly different. When we brought in Agger and Skrtel, they were pretty much filling out the 4 centrebacks we’ve come to expect. Not replacing players who have already proven themselves in title races.

We already replaced Matip in the form of Quansah. I’m not sure who else we’ve needed to replace. If all our defenders were 24 or under, would you keep arguing that we need to buy a new one every season for the next 5 seasons, and say we’ve underinvested and neglected the defence? No, because that would be absurd.

@Zoran

Probably with someone else. The discussion we had was that there are starters in most positions when you have a settled team and squad and there is no mess or unsuccessful era. Konate or Gomez/Quansah in some sort of imaginary rotation isn’t a decision that is just falling from the sky. Like that was a hard decision… there was a decision, all the way back on matchday 1 at half-time. Konate didn’t look back since then.

And again the numbers back then when we had that argument did not support your claim. I don’t think the way the season has panned out has necessarily proven nor disproven your claim either. All that we have seen is that we don’t swap out centre-backs unnecessarily because it destabilises the team.

@Zoran

I don’t think the 4th CB option has to be a too young talented player who is just happy to be in the matchday squad or Nat Phillips type of “what am I doing here, this is incredible” case. We’re battling on multiple fronts. We’re not carrying 10+ defenders.

The number of minutes that is available for them to play just says otherwise. What’s made a difference in our successful vs unsuccessful seasons since 2018 has just been down to injuries, not really anything to do with the quality of the players at all.

[legalalien]

How about this for CB manouvres?

Sell Gomez, loan Quansah to a PL club, buy two CBs (Huijsen and Hato). Next summer Konate’s contract is up and he offs it to PSG, at which point we bring back Quansah. Sorted.