A lot of sense in that I feel.
It is rather remarkable how many people/sectors there are in the UK that wanted Brexit for everyone else but them.
People just donât know enough about it - on both sides, to realise the implications. Contrary to previous suggestions I have never suggested that all brexit voters were somehow all-knowing oracles, I do believe it was the right decision though, even if for many it was for the wrong reasons or without a proper understanding of the issues and ramifications. That could equally apply to wanting to remain in the EU, as well.
It goes without saying though that you canât judge Brexit by its initial impact, particularly as it coincides with an unprecedented global pandemic, but only 10 years or so down the line.
I suspect Roger Daltrey is very seldom accused of being an all-knowing oracle.
Apparently he wont get fooled again.
Iâll get my coatâŚ
Weâll post it to youâŚ
Turns out a referendum where you get to choose between an observable, criticisable reality/status quo vs a blank page for everyone to fill in whith whatever version or fantasy might have been problematic from the start.
I thought youâd left the building?
I think thatâs not quite fair. Yes the pandemic is a massive problem but leaving in the middle of it was easily avoidable.
While people will certainly look back in 10 years time I also suspect that we also need to assess the impact now of the deal that was agreed. Weâve already seen examples of people that supported the idea of Brexit with the firm belief that nothing would change. I just feel its important to understand all of those changes early.
âobservable, criticisable realty/status quoâ is a bit mis-leading. With the EU the status quo doesnât last - thereâs only one direction of travel, it systemically cannot change course. And whilst it can be observed and criticised it is not answerable to the electorate in any meaningful way and cannot democratically be challenged.
AnywayâŚI know we see this very differently. I agree that it would have been better to have something tangible to put forward as to what âleaveâ would be but that was not possible. The EU were not going to negotiate a hypothetical deal with a member that might leave and even if they had engaged in such a charade, such a deal would never have been properly capable of fully exploring the respective red lines of the EU and the UK.
I still regret that, from my point of view at least, the EU has become so stubbornly wedded to dogma that I respectfully consider to be out of date, counter-productive and even dangerous.
I thought you were advocating for EEA Efta status? Could have been an easy, definable choice between that and staying in the EU on a ballot.
Ah, yes - thatâs true. Itâs an odd one though - itâs almost as if weâd have to go two steps back to go one step forward.
If the referendum was remain in the EU or go Efta/EEA (my preference as the initial step) I doubt that would have drummed up much fervent support from the Eurosceptics. It might have appealed to the nerds or the pragmatic leavers (like me, I guess) but for those who decry freedom of movement or shout SOVEREIGNTY it would have been portrayed as a fudge, as simply not going far enough. I think the turn out would have been piss poor and I would expect that this would have given us a Remain outcome.
However, in the current circumstances, with us having actually left - if you were to offer the electorate three choices, and objectively explained each of those options and the most likely ramificationsâŚJohnsonâs deal, Efta/EEA or the EU then my own (admittedly biased) view is that the majority would find Efta/EEA the most appealing. Right now. For the medium term future (say next 15 years). I think it would have the best chance of enjoying broad, cross-party and intranational UK support, drawing in a large number of those who find themselves on different sides of the fence despite being relatively near the centre politically.
So in short you needed the fantasy and lies to get people to a point they didnât want to go to, but you did?
Ironically you might have fit in perfectly with the undemocratic EU mafia and their tactics. A shame, really, talent wasted.
I would have preferred to remain in the EU, as I doubt we will prosper outside of it, but perhaps going down the EFTA/EEA route would have been an acceptable compromise. Unfortunately we were never offered the choice.
We have at least secured tariff and quota free trade in goods with the EU. So the immediate shock to the system wonât be as catastrophic as trading on WTO terms might have been. Your sticking plaster wasnât covering up a severed artery.
Unfortunately non tariff barriers to trade, and the lack of any concrete agreement on services will, I believe, slowly strangle our economic growth. The ultimate death by a thousand cuts.
Itâs ok, Iâve got this. I love lamb.
The price might actually drop for you if the UK market gets saturated with stuff we cant export