The key is to remember that not everyone falls neatly on one side or the other, it is on a spectrum. On some issues we have tendency to agree with things people see as left wing, other issues we agree on are considered right wing for example a lot of the Blue Wall areas that were traditional labour voting areas actually voted Conservative in the last election and did so in large part because their social values had moved towards the right.
Given that the UK and USA for example are pretty much two party political systems, there are a lot of people who will fall in between these two ideological positions - so each party will have an internal conflict going on as to how much compromise is allowed in order to attract those middle voters. For example, @Mascot & @Draexnael in posts on TIA have said they self identify as centre left. However, I also would self identify as centre left, and I think they are much further to the left than i am.
That would be my view as well. @Mascot further to the left than @Draexnael. I actually think @Draexnael is fairly closely aligned with your views. @Noo_Noo as well.
I donāt think Iāve ever said Iām centre left. Iām definitely socialist in most of my opinions.
I think the confusion might be that Iāve said that across much of Europe I wouldnāt be considered as fringe as I am in the UK. The whole political spectrum has lurched to the right in the UK, with the Tories now much further right than they have ever been.
I donāt think we should label ourselves or others as socialist or conservative etc. We are continually inventing labels and things are just confusing, chaotic and confrontational.
Rather, there should be proper discussions on issues.
I think most of the parties simply set the goals then have some discussions just to rubber stamp the decision. This create and sustain a myriad of groups with different opinions.
A bit unrelated, I find conservative CDU more leftists than leftist Labour (both UK and Australia).
I would describe my politics a little confused to be honest. Yes thereās a big chunk that is left leaning and iām content with that but thereās this other side which to me feels like some really right wing nationalistic type trope. Part of me is a little uncomfortable with that but at the same time I feel it is completely necessary direction.
I am a Welsh nationalist and I feel its something completely necessary but then I look at how some other nationalists behave etc. and wonder how far I am from that in political terms?
Center in the fact my beliefs are centered around hardwork and dedication should be rewarded and I like earning money.
Left in the fact I understand that I have privilege (i had a good start in life from an excellent family) and there are others out there that simply donāt have (or have had) the chances I have had, or could be disadvantaged in some way. I am more than happy to help others (who deserve it) with what little extra I have.
(Thats why itās center left and not full socialist which would be a complete level field for all, including lazy good for nothings (which their arenāt as many as the Daily Fail lead you to believe)).
I also detest liers and bullies which this current crop of Toryās are the worst of the worst, aided by some of the most corrupt and self-greed lead media/rich people.
I think the thing about Welsh (and Scottish) nationalism is that it comes with much less imperial and racist baggage than itās English equivalent. The idea of English Nationalism has been thoroughly colonised by a hardcore of really nasty fuckers, and the way English Nationalism generally expresses itself is not pride in ones own nation, but dislike and distain for others.
It also helps that the Scottish and Welsh national parties are broadly progressive and left leaning.
I feel envious of nations like Wales, where you can be proud of your nation and enjoy your flag and your anthems. Unfortunately I couldnāt ever hang a St George flag on my house because the symbolism and associations of that flag are just too grim.
They are the same people who spent the last few years calling out the Labour centrists for not supporting Corbyn as leader - which I agreed with them about. And then they do exactly the same. And the centrists who did so much to undermine Corbyn moan about the leftists undermining Starmer.
Itās such a fucking mess. Too many people in such deeply entrenched positions who canāt see the wood for the trees. And in this case the wood is a government which is absolutely destroying the country.
Patriotism is absolute while Nationalism is comparative.
I consider myself a patriot. I love my culture, people, language etc. etc. I donāt go comparing our literature with those in Hindi, French or whatever.
Patriotism is inspiring and adventurous. I love my rice and curry. But it also makes me curious about what delicious things the Chinese or the Mexican are cooking.
I think in Britain (especially England), patriotism has come to mean uncritical, unwavering, support. Brexit became completely consumed by delusional patriotism to the point where are serious national conversation about international trade and economics got taken over by mindless flag waving rhetoric. Itās not healthy and itās going to be the end of this nation.
Ta, thatās a relief. Had this internal dilemma of being a proud Taffy and wanting to do what is necessary to preserve our language, culture and place names but did not want to be in any way aligned with some of those nutters you see from time to time.
Iāve given this more thought to be honest so the discussion has been worthwhile on that front alone. I appreciate that. I am extremely patriotic and at times vocal about the erosion of the Welsh language and currently Welsh place names seems to be the current hot topic although itās been a huge issue for centuries. We get extremely irked at people that move into traditional Welsh villages and basically wreak havoc with the local culture. Some of it is not intentional, just a little stubborn and ignorant. Sometimes itās downright nasty. I despise these people and if Iām guilty of one thing is that we unfortunately tend to label them as ātypical Englishā. They arenāt, weāre probably better served calling out the individuals rather than lumping them all together. But it is difficult when you find that colonialism is still there.
Iām the same. Although Iām a member of the Green Party, Iām as extreme right wing as you can get when it comes to crime. Iād shoot everyone who breaks the lawā¦ starting with the government.
How screwed up is this then? I would vote for an independent Wales tomorrow. No qualms at all. Anything to get away from that evil empire that is currently residing in Westminster, they take our money, control our borders, use our resources etc etc.
It really isnāt the same though. Much of the āunderminingā that centrists are blamed for was exaggerated. Merely an excuse by those close to Corbyn to justify failures to act. Those elections that those on the left of the party keep telling us Labour nearly won fail to acknowledge that it was in no small part because of the efforts of those ācentristsā that are vilified. Yet, we saw last year what a flustercluck the 2019 election was without them.
Centrists still made an effort to be positive whenever Corbyn was seen to do the right thing - that is not something being done now by Novara media et al, who when they are not critical of Starmer, help manufacture stories to keep him out of the picture - for example when Starmer first tackled PMQs and embarrassed the government, that wasnāt shown. Instead we got a clip of Corbyn making exactly the same point two hours later to a near empty chamber (even allowing for Covid related reduction in numbers).
I really donāt think itās ironic. I think it makes complete sense. Being part of the EU gives you a sense of European Identity, a nation amongst many nations. Yet as part of the British Isles, Wales is always going to feel like a junior partner. Iād probably do the same if I were a Cymru lad.
