On the surface it doesn’t look great but we need to see the detail. Some of the proposals in the article have a “sensible feel” to them but are short on detail
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The headline was terrible, and I had the same instinctive reaction as the old git, but I still couldn’t really tell what the practical differences were.
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I’m still waiting for the headline ‘Tories shit on us from a great height … again!’
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I was just thinking about that article what it is about Lee Anderson that the Tories think is remotely appealing. He’s a bar-room bigot; the kind of prick that shows up in the pub and everyone wishes would fuck off whilst vaguely humouring because they just want to have a drink with pals, watch the football or whatever they have gone out for.
I think what pisses me off is that he is what the Tory party thinks working class people are like. I suppose some of them are - usually the ones that everyone else wishes would piss off and leave them alone.
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:0)
Got me thinking… Do we have any aspiring Lee Anderson’s on the forum 
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Not sure what use the police are for, except for assaulting people…
I can’t remember, but I think for the Met, the serious crime cases that they actually solve number in the low single digit percentages…
On yer bike lad!
Not just pubs. Walking through the park last week, me a short, fat bald headed bloke in tee shirt, shorts and trainers was engaged in conversation by two ‘Gentlemen’ who were charmed by my English Bull Dog Bert. We chatted for a while about the weather, and how lucky we were to have a wonderful park ( The first public park in the world) to enjoy.
They both assumed by my appearance and choice of dog that I’d be sympathetic to their thoughts on immigrants and striking workers? I was proud of myself that by the time we’d exited the park I had them agreeing with me that there was nothing ‘Illegal’ about immigration and that YES when you see what folks are earning for ‘menial’* jobs then perhaps the Junior Doctors do deserve a rise.
TBH, I don’t really hold much hope that I’ve changed their mindset. 
*By saying “menial” I don’t mean to denigrate anybody’s profession.
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ONLY $75 million 
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Are you suggesting that menial jobs are highly paid?
If so can you point them out to me?
My clients consider that my job is menial, I consider I’m so well paid I offer no service to my clients!
My take is most deserve a pay rise, particularly those with jobs that are soo poorly paid instead of paying income tax their pay is subsidised by the government, like my job!
Sorry, “menial” was a poor choice of words. Jobs where you don’t have to train for four years and then maybe have to make decisions that could affect someone’s life.
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I’m assuming that you are in Birkenhead but your description of yourself reminds me of the comedian Jeff Innocent.
That’s starting to get complicated as the definition excludes for example BANKERS!
For me this type of thing is more a question of class, I’m pretty sure these Junior Doctors don’t give a shit about how much a worker earns and are probably against nurses, railworkers … getting pay rises and a good number even against a benefits system. Sorry but if they don’t feel I deserve a living wage I can not bring myself to say they deserve more.
Society has to wake up and some of these fuckers more than others. Let’s face it a lot of the medical profession have helped keep the Tories in power over the years… and even think they are better than ‘us’.
They really are not the 1st on the list of those in need!
What ever your definition is.
Sure they aren’t the ‘bosses’ who offer themselves wage increases that have seen the divide rise fro 4 to probably well over 12 times now however when these fuckwits think poor people should forfiet a budget flat screen TV yet have an up market one we enter into a very dangerous game where people die whether there’s a doctor making a decission or not.
Not sure about that. In my experience more doctors wouldn’t vote conservative than lots of other more ‘menial’ jobs. Granted consultants generally get by okay but junior doctors these days are being squeezed every which way financially and are often very poorly remunerated on an hourly basis, even before you consider the study, associated debt and hoops they’ve had to jump through. Unfortunately it’s yet another profession where there is a hollowing out of the ‘middle’ in favour of a smaller group of very highly (over) paid such that now the profession is unappealing to many unless they approach it more like a rapacious banker or lawyer and aim to be a very high billing consultant. This in turn skews the intake away from the traditional rationale of helping (and ego) towards a much more selfish mercantile mindset of a growing number. It is these that are much more likely Tory voters.
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I really could give a poop!
The point is these people probably didn’t support the recent demands of nurses and railworks which were put in my rant for a reason!
I’d disagree. Doctors don’t want to be working alongside demoralised and underpaid nurses and find the best, most caring, effective and brightest leaving. Doctors can be egotistical and aren’t always the smartest socially but they sure as fuck don’t want the nursing profession they and their patients rely upon to become unappealing to all the good nurses we all rely upon to hold the system together right now. Those I talk to (albeit in Australia, haha) would say it’s much cheaper to pay a decent wage to keep them than the cost to the health system of losing them and picking up the pieces. But I’m not sure what your point is as it seems the doctors opinions don’t seem to count here and rather it’s a cohort of idiotic ‘managers’ that are making these decisions.
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I don’t think you can lump them all in together. From my experience, most NHS doctors are very committed to the service and are very supportive of other public service workers. It’s not all. Clearly some are just in it for the money and will set up in private practice as soon as they have gained enough experience in public hospitals.
If you go back to the start, many consultants were very opposed to the creation of the NHS. All of those doctors have now left the service so those who are now there are those that grew up with the service and knew that was what they would be entering in to.
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Has anyone met a poor doctor? I’m friends with a few. Great people, but I don’t think they have any idea what the average person earns. Their comparator is private consultants so they think they’re hard done by. But in comparison to other public sector workers, after their foundation they earn a great wage which rises to big money within a few years.
I have no issue with this but pay rises for teachers, nurses etc are a bigger priority imo
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Could anyone on here do the hours a young doctor has to do… Didn’t think so
Could anyone live through the shit, non existent social life they have to endure… most until they are in their mid to late 30’s - Didn’t think so again…
Unless you have experienced the same sacrifices young doctors have to make, in order to carry out the life-saving responsibilities on a daily basis… How can we even comment they don’t deserve to be paid accordingly for that alone… but it must also be remembered, a lot of doctors take on the career because they are born with compassion… simple as, otherwise, with the brains they have, and the qualifications they achieve… they could have all opted for easy street world of finance.
How galling must it be… to have bosses of the healthcare, and politicians in government - whom academically could not hold a candle to these young doctors… yet it is these numpty’s that make the rules, without fully understanding what the NHS is all about…
Pay these young doctors what their status deserves, is what I say
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