There was a vote in the 70s when we joined. Shouldn’t that have been the end of it all or is it only the end of it when it’s the result that you want?
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Top of my head was it France , Ireland and Denmark that rejected certain integration of the EU ?..and then had more until they basically fell in line .
This one has been done many times, but at the time a load of people were being led to believe that we were joining only a trading bloc, not a European superstate…
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I thought we were talking about the left wing parties in the UK and the brexit referendum.
This is what will happen if labour win.
And if another referendum is called and EU membership is rejected again they will follow suit until they get the desired result…
Imo.
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It makes me laugh when I hear people in the media (and read others on the internet) saying that another referendum wouldn’t be democratic.
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That’s a matter for the uk though,nothing to do with the eu as you seem to be suggesting.
In the mid 80’s in Ireland we had a vote on divorce which was rejected.Within 10 years we had another 1 which was accepted as the numbers had moved towards a yes vote.
We had a pro life referendum in the early/mid 80’s which gave equal rights to the unborn foetus,yet in 2018 this was repealed by another referendum.
Demographics change,people change their minds.As a result governments need to be prepared to put questions to the people.It doesn’t have to be in a referendum vote,could be in a census and then acted upon when numbers are significantly different from when an origional vote was taken.
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If another referendum is called, the results of it shouldn’t be questioned.
Perhaps they’re just waiting for the right timing to go one or two better than the desperate SNP mob and allow 14 year olds to vote
She was actively involved, as she was with other parts of Johnson’s rise and fall?
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Is this just conspiracy theory stuff or are you alluding to something in particular ?
(I’ve noticed a lot of criticism of her on here , but seeing as I’ve been away from the UK for a long time now , I’m not really sure what it’s about or whether it’s justified. I would love to be informed.)
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At the time of the referendum in 2016, people were being led to believe that we were leaving the bloc to take control of our borders, for better trading terms, £350m/wk for the NHS etc etc.
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People were not misled into voting to join the EC/EU in the belief they were voting to join a trading bloc. It is one of the urban myths that has been around for quite a while but picked up a lot of steam during the last referendum. Political discourse prior (by I think up to a decade) to the original referendums very much talked about the need for greater political integration.
Ask Full Fact: did we vote for the EU in the 1975 referendum? - Full Fact
"In 1975 the UK held a referendum on continued membership of the European Community.
This wasn’t presented just as a trade agreement. Other issues discussed at the time related to security, European funding for UK industries and regions, and aid to developing countries.
That’s not to say that anyone in 1975 knew what the EU would be like in 2016, or how much it would change in the following years.
The European Community was presented as more than a trade agreement
During the 1975 campaign, membership of the European Community was presented by both the government and the Conservative opposition as relevant to peace, security, and both regional and international development, as well as to trade and economic cooperation.
In 1975 the government set out the aims of the European Community as bringing “together the peoples of Europe”, raising living standards and improving working conditions, promoting growth and boosting world trade. They also set out that the EC would “help the poorest regions of Europe and the rest of the world” and “help maintain peace and freedom”.
In their October 1974 manifesto, the Conservative party outlined the two key ideas behind the EEC as being to maintain security within Europe and to allow European influence in the world, and control over its own affairs, to grow in a world of polarised superpowers.
The “Yes” and “No” campaigns talked about other issues too
The “Yes” campaign of 1975 also presented the debate as being about a range of issues, from jobs security to world peace and the Commonwealth.
One “Yes” campaign claim which with the benefit of hindsight we can say was not true, was that English common law would not be affected by staying in the European Community. We now know that EU law has a significant effect on UK law.
Meanwhile the official “No” campaign warned of the risk to sovereignty, jobs and food prices. They also raised the issue of lesser trade with the Commonwealth if the UK voted to stay in the European Community and told voters that it would be best for peace, stability and independence if they voted to leave.
Immigration was not mentioned by either campaign in their official leaflets."
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Anything wrong with people changing their mind(s) in the light of new information?
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Referendums are generally advisory in nature, at least in the UK. I think Denmark too.
There and in Ireland, there had been material changes which made a second referendum a fair idea - Both countries received guarantees and or opt outs to allow them to retain control/ independence on certain issues which had been viewed as the issues that had led people to vote no first time round (Ireland’s first vote also only had around a 3rd of the electorate voting).
Given these referendums were not about being completely in or out, I don’t see an issue here. Even then, I don’t see why a second referendum could not be done if there was a material change between them.
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if there was another referendum on joining the EU after voting to leave
I would love to hear the arguements against giving Scotland another referendum…
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Isn’t rejoining somewhat moot anyway? I don’t think there is a great deal of appetite in the EU for a member that is committed to membership for 1-2 electoral cycles at a time.
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It might be because of comments Starmer made last week about wanting to work with the EU on an agreement once Johnson’s post brexit deal ends in 2025. He was not talking about reversing Brexit - but finding a common ground to lesson the negative impact (as far as i am aware, the UK still hasnt implemented all the checks etc it is meant to have done)
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Something in my mind says that suggestion is a generation away.
However, I do think it’s foolish not to explore ways of improving trade relations along with other aspects. The Horizon agreement for example. Some Brexiteers may rant at the cost but at least we now have access.
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Noises I have heard is that the EU is moving towards a new tiered system next year. This is being pushed by France and Germany (countries like NZ are hopeful as full consensus will no longer be needed) .
France/Germany and a few others at the top, general EU membership in second tier, a third tier for likes of Norway and a forth tier for a loose association.
UK would be in that fourth tier, but could potentially be in that third tier also.
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Ok , but I was specifically asking about Kuenssberg and Johnson.