Thats why the answer is to punish anything Israeli or supporting Israel. Eye for an eye as those torah fucks might understand
Or an alternative reading.
The nature of our politics means that to get elected you have to promise shit in the election build up that you have no intention of fullfilling if you get in power?
There are different types of voters though.
Those that will vote for their preferable party, regardless.
Those that are hell bent on voting out the incumbent, regardless.
Those that are flexible enough to vote based on the shit promised in the election build up.
All types get shafted in the end, regardless
You sound like a right winger who describes anyone with a conscience as virtue signalling
Well obviously. But UK sit on the UN Security Council and a vote on parliament would carry some weight there
You speak very confidently about something you clearly have no knowledge of. There is no hope of a 2 state solution. Settlement building has ended that years ago. Even 20 years ago when I was there, Palestinians said this chance had gone and the only hope is for one state with equal rights for all citizens.
As for pissing off israel. Please read the article I posted above and explain why anyone should give a flying fuck about pissing them off. They need to be told or forced to stop through sanctions, boycott or even a UN peacekeeping force
Wow, youāve been fully sucked in havenāt you.
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My humble opinion is that the only way Israel will alter its behavior is if America takes decisive action against them. A vote in the UK, an earlier motion brought by South Africa, the UNā¦ all of it means nothing to Israel, or at least, not enough to alter, by one jot, whatever they want to do under Netanyahu.
The ONLY way it changes is if America had some resolve against what Israel is doing. If they did, they could tell them unequivocally to stop, and they could back it up by withdrawing arms, and the steady annual supply of billions of dollars, which is a farce, as Israel is not some developing country that needs food or basic provisions.
And herein lies the problem. America is nowhere near united enough to do anything of consequence!
The President might, but it would damage his election prospects if it looked like he was too pro-Palestinian, so he walks a line that is unhelpful and wonāt get anything meaningful done.
But even if the President enjoyed a large majority, and was forthright in being no friend to Netanyahu, like Barack Obama back in the day, then the idiots in another branch of US Government would just bypass the President and invite the top Israeli over to give a speech to the Senate, and receive succor that way.
Itās a shitshow.
Israel is committing a huge crime before the eyes of a watching world. Tens of thousands of children have been killed and when it is over, how many by then? And what will it have achieved?
If Hamas is wiped out, whatever Palestinians survive this will only rise up with more determination to strike back at Israel. And one can only assume it gives impetus to Iran as they try to get nuclear weapons.
Notwithstanding the Israeli people themselves rising up en masse and saying ānot in our nameā the ONLY country with meaningful power to do anything about Israel is America, but there is not the resolve or the unity to do that.
Itās tragic.
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My view on this situation: Netanyahouās regime has shown itself to be totally unacceptable. Any politician from any democratic country should stop supporting it, stop talking with it, and make it very clear that there will be no talk, no negociation and no support before this government has been removed. That would be a very clear sign for the citizens in Israel, and a proper wake-up call for the cunts in power there.
But letās not be naive. The UK and the US are not only silently accepting Israelās infamous actions, but also actively supporting them. In that regard, Labour and Tories are on the same page and Iām thus not surprised by this latest episode. The same happens in my country, and Iām deeply ashamed about it.
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If you want to do this, you are going to have to drop the insults and aggressive tone. Weāre just going to end up shouting at each other, and that would be a shame and Iām interested in your point of view.
Yes, as anyone who knows me in this discussion will attest, I am very, very right wing. 
No, obviously Iām not right wing, but I do think In situations like this, where lives are being lost and international diplomacy needs to play out, it pays to be pragmatic. UK Parliament could pass a motion calling Israel Nazis committing genocide, and make ourselves feel warm and fuzzy for doing āthe right thingā but that wonāt make any difference, and in some way could well end up making things much worse.
Doctor Who is right about this. In any conflict, at some point youāre going to have to do what you were always going to have to do from the very start, sit down and talk!
Is that helpful?
Personally I think a motion calling for a ceasefire that applies to one side only is a joke. Itās not calling for ceasefire if only one side has to cease firing.
I also think everyone would do well not to be sucked in by the SNP who behaved absolutely deplorably on Wednesday night.
They put forward a motion knowing that Labour could not back it, and it would create a rebellion for Starmer to deal with. They essentially used the situation in Gaza to further their domestic agenda, then when Starmer outmanoeuvred them, rather than voting for the ceasefire that was on the table - they had a shitfit and stropped out of the commons.
For anyone who cares about what is happening in Gaza, this should be obviously disgusting behaviour. The SNP had little interest in passing a motion on Gaza. They sole interest was using the issue to destabilise Labour. Fucking shame on them.
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Fixed
Apologies if I offend you, but your reasoning are pointless and I feel that you are aware of it. Israel is being incrementally nasty knowing that US and Europe are joined to their hip. What incentive do they have to change their behavior (allowing aids to a starving population being just one of the many) if the West continues to shield and appease them? Isnāt it like fixing something that isnāt broke?
Take a casual look at events over the last few months. Take a casual look at events since 1967 (thatās 57 years). Donāt you see two things; the West unconditionally supporting (not just shielding) Israel and Israel being increasingly oppressive?
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I know youāre not right wing. That was kind of the point I was making. That you wouldnāt apply this logic to other situations. I.e. people speaking the truth about injustice, even if it doesnāt make a difference, is not āgesture politicsā.
Honestly, I donāt care about the SNP or the political circus. Any public representative with a conscience should be stating the objective truth of what is unfolding, without fear of Israel or the Zionist lobby. Yes, there should be a ceasefire on both sides. First, the US and UK should stop being complicit in collective punishment and genocide
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From the politics side @Mascotā¦ Labour are saying the speaker was right to make that call so that MPs could debate their motion.
If it was so important for MPs to debate a Labour motion, why did they refuse to bring one for 4 months and only do so after the SNP had tabled their own?
Genuine question
Isnāt that the idea of consensus? The SNP were totally unwilling to amend their motion, because the point of wasnāt to support the Palestinian people - it was an attack on Labour and an attempt to divide them, by creating a rebellion against Starmer.
If the SNP were keen on supporting the Palestinianās with a ceasefire motion, they would have made consensus a to ensure its passage.
I suspect Labour knew it was a trap, and circumnavigated that trap by putting their own motion through and sidelining the SNP.
Iām sorry, but the SNP have no right to complain about playing politics when a) their motion was primarily a party political manoeuvre to divide Labour and b) had Labour not tabled their own motion then there would have been no ceasefire motion passed (which may have been their intention in the first place).
As for why Labour havenāt used any of their own opposition motions to table a Gaza one, I donāt know. Maybe they feel that as the opposition there is more to be gained by tabling motions on domestic issues that will have an impact, rather than largely symbolic ones about Israelās foreign policy?
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How did that work out for Jeremy Corbyn?
I wonder if this has anything to do with Israel having a couple of hundred nuclear warheads at their disposal and ruling class enamoured with a particularly apocalyptic brand of Old Testament end times thinking?
As I said before, I wish heād stood his ground, and fought the false claims against him (and those who stood with him) rather than trying to appease those who would stab him/them in the back
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These things combined therefore equal a perfect example of the āgesture politicsā you were describing earlier?
So do I. But he stood in solidarity with Palestine, criticised Israel, and now half the country think heās a raging antisemite, and the Tories got an 80 seat majority as a result. We are are where we are.
I do understand your position and your frustration, but I suspect the leader of the oppositions criticism of Israel makes not a bit of difference to Israel, but is enormously costly domestically.
Maybe Iām becoming cynical, but itās been thirteen years of destroying everything they touch and I just need the Tories out. If that means the Labour has to play a guarded hand politically, then so be it.
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No, half the country think heās an anti-semite because, as Chomsky stated:
āOne must admire the incredible skills the media have in manipulating the population. Theyāve managed to convince many that the most passionate Anti Racist Campaigner of the last 40 years, Jeremy Corbyn, is actually Pro-racist and Anti Semitic.ā
I do understand that
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I am a Londoner, my Ealing council is run by a person called Peter Mason and his Deputy is Derdrie Costigan.
So, that is a myth. The inept, sacked ex Home Secretary makes Priti Patel look like Mother Teresa!
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Careful!
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