Jones gets slaughtered on Twitter/X. Seems to be an easy target. However, I haven’t seen a single logical argument against any of the points he is making here
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I think I’ve made several over the last couple of days.
Writing policy from the comfort of a guardian column is great, but at some point you have to get in power to do anything.
The Labour Party does not exist to make Owen Jones feel warm and righteous. It has to get into power, otherwise there is no point.
We are a country in which the media is dominated by right wing ad faith actors who piss their knickers at any progressive policy. The electorate has a long standing habit of kicking itself in the balls. And whoever gets in power is going to find it’s a struggle to keep the lights on.
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None of that addresses any of his points. In fact if you read the article you’ll see he has predicted your comment
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Well the question is, is the Labour Party as it is right now more likely to be able to drive a change of the social narrative, or more likely to end up being a victim of it?
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He’s predicting the response because the response is so obvious.
The fact remains that the last time Labour had a policy agenda that would inspire the three of us - you, me and Owen Jones - the result was an 80 seat Tory majority. You can’t argue with reality.
Owen Jones can moan all he wants, but he doesn’t have to get elected. He isn’t going to be smeared and dragged through the mud by the 8 billionaires whose tax loopholes he wants to close, and inconveniently own all the fucking newspapers. He doesn’t have to win the votes of people who voted for Brexit, or people who have racist views on immigration, or people who don’t understand economics, or people who thought Jeremy Corbyn was the devil, or the people with three kids who inexplicably support a two kid limit on child benefit. And he isn’t going to get into power and find that all the things he promised to do aren’t actually possible because the country has been left in ruins by the last lot.
Owen Jones is someone that I like a lot, but he isn’t a stranger to getting himself in an economic muddle. All the things he wants to do are (I suspect) things that the Labour would like to do. But the problem is that they have to be paid for, which means that the government have to get hold of cash. The only ways of doing that are borrowing or raising taxes, both of which are virtually impossible at the minute.
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They are all the same….
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Earth will survive while we won’t. But it will be a big hit for all life on earth. A lot of species will disappear with us. In fact, there is a big chance that the immense majority of animals will have disappeared before we finally make place, perhaps, for a new cycle of development of life. But it will have to be a process which restarts almost from scratch.
And that’s without thinking about what will happen if some people are stupid enough to launch a nuclear holocaust **. In that case, all life on earth is likely to disappear, apart maybe from some unicellular beings, resistant enough to the radiations, or maybe some forms of ultra-resistant, microscopic species.
** Thinking about it, I’m a bit surprised that it hasn’t happened already, with all the idiots currently in charge everywhere.
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If getting to power requires winning the votes of these people, and I presume keeping them happy when in power, then whats the fucking point? The UK is beyond fucked no matter who’s in power
And the Chernobyl worms shall inherit the earth…
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Yeah, that’s my thinking, sort of.
I cant see what Labour can and will do differently and there doesn’t appear to be any plans to radically change parliament or the election process which would at least be a start of something I feel.
The fear is Labour get in, right wing press goes full tilt. Labour are essentially hounded out after 4 years because their hands were tied from day 1 and we end up back at square 1.
TBH, I quite like him but he then acts like a petulant teenager.
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A change in election process isn’t going to have an immediate radical effect. Over time, it would have a fundamental effect, but it will take multiple election cycles to really observe that - and likely a period of ineffective coalition governments while the political culture caught up with the institutional change.
The change that it is incredibly overdue is changing the fundamental finances of political parties. British politics are up for auction with the current set of contribution rules, they make the American system look robust by comparison. Corporate and union money needs to be cleared out of politics, and a contribution limit set low enough that it is within the means of the average voter.
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Agreed but first steps must be taken.
Dead right on funding too, I’d completely forgotten about that, along with lobbying rules.
The other area is the press. Not sure how you rectify that issue without seriously infringing freedom of speech etc. but if certainly start with politicians not writing for newspapers, not hosting TV shows and those lobbying rules mentioned above. Having Murdoch and co. with an open door into no. 10 is just wrong.
I was kind of hoping I was wrong… You know, like usual.
Hey, I could very easily be wrong; it certainly wouldn’t be the first time.
But, given how the media in this country works, the most likely scenario is that the rightwing attack dogs bring the Labour government down after one term.
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Because once in power, a party usually has more flexibility and data to work with. A lot of the things it has tried to square off now are things it could easily revisit once in government and find voters giving it less attention.
Equally, I can see the left of the party having more influence on policy if Labour is elected than it does now.
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Have you seen any indications from Starmer et al that this could happen?
I’ve got no opinion or interest in Jones at all. Just observed that people attack him personally rather than engaging with his arguments
Yes. I think Starmer is just trying to be pragmatic. the range of options he has available to deflect negative attention will differ when in opposition to being in power.
Also, it’s unlikely that his party will win a crushing majority in the election so the votes from his own MPs will carry more weight when trying to pass bills than it does in opposition trying to block them.
Starmer going straight to the S*n this morning to stoke culture wars.
But sure he has no choice because he needs the support of that rag, and of racists, and genocide supporters.
He can do or say anything but we have to support him so he gets to power 