UK Politics Thread (Part 3)

‘Cheques and balances’ :roll_eyes:

It’s a disingenuous article.

People have valid reasons not to trust Starmer, such as encouraging genocide in Gaza and bullshit interviews like this-

https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1795127051516617188?s=46&t=Tk6buFVfyHeITdfFRWCVMg

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Wow, is that…a real woman?!

No, it’s premise is spot on.

This is a first past the post system. If you don’t vote for Starmer, you risk getting Sunak. And he is a lot worse on Gaza and taxation.

When we have a proportional system, then we can vote for other parties. Until then it’s Starmer or Sunak (Unless you live in one of those constituencies where the Lib Dems are the closest challenger)

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I’ve changed Labour permanently, Keir Starmer says - BBC News

https://x.com/molliebuchan/status/1795128341999067233?s=46

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I don’t believe that he is; he’s just genuinely hopeless.

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Its as simple as him banking on being able to collect some of the Tory voters by not scaring them off with the threat of tax rises while simultaneously banking on keeping the majority of low and middle income earners regardless of reneging on that pledge.

I don’t think anybody genuinely believes Starmer is doing anything other than politicking. I am not sure what you expect of a politician when there’s blood in the water re: the Tories.

I think if you come at this from the angle that you think Starmer should carry above and beyond what you expect of a politician then I think you have unrealistic expectations.

If you come at this from the angle that , yes, he’s a politician, but unless you are needing to be seen to psychologically, you give the benefit of the doubt to a potential incoming PM with very little blood on their hands (comparitively speaking) when the alternative is a government that has single-handedly gutted the national health service bringing about what will be at least 2 decades of an undiagnosed long-term illness crisis, has brought about brazen wholesale government corruption (as evidence by the country’s plunge in the world rankings), over 2 decades of fiscal mismanagement, and totally annihilated the country’s moral compass.

The only thing I’d say to someone bitching about Starmer not being perfect (he doesn’t even need to be close to it) is: ‘First World Problems’.

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I’m not coming at it from any angle other than I have my doubts about him. it was a factual interview I thought people should see it. Beth Rigby however is one of our best political journalists. Just thought is was interesting an relevant.

But I havent made any of the points you are levelling at me. Which is a repeating pattern of this forum I see on my return. As well as hounding anyone that would dare to think different. Its a bit cultish.

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I understand this argument and the rationale for voting in this way. The disingenuous part is calling people ‘foolish and self-indulgent’ if they don’t vote Labour. Many people will have thoughtfully considered and have valid reasons, and a democratic right, not to

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‘First world problems’ are wanting an incoming PM to commit to taxing the mega rich more to benefit 95% of society?

Wow.

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It always makes me laugh when I hear an MP on television accusing another party of “playing politics” over something or another.

Isn’t that the job of a politician?

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Have your lot done the election yet ?

My lot??? :man_shrugging:

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I understand what he means. I know plenty of people who won’t vote Labour because they aren’t left wing enough. They all happen to be comfortable, fairly well off, and will probably be fine whoever gets in. It is a somewhat privileged position to be insulated from the consequences of your vote.

If I were voting purely in my own self interest, I’d vote Green. They are a lot closer to my natural politics and prioritise the things I think most important. However, they don’t have a cat in hells chance of getting anywhere near power, and therefore every vote for them makes it more likely the Tories retain power. Now, I could be happy with that, and I’d probably be OK if the Tories get in again. But I’m also aware that thousands, if not millions, wouldn’t be. I have to see beyond the end of my own nose.

Politics is essentially about compromise - it’s the art of the possible. Keir Starmer cannot fight and win an election from my (and I suspect your) politics because there aren’t enough of us around. We have to be grown up enough to understand the context Keir Starmer (who is no Tory, and anyone who says he is is, to be frank, a fucking moron) in operating in.

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UK elections.

And the follow up question , Is it really going to make a difference ?

I have been a member of the Green Party for many years and have always voted for them. I don’t like this current Labour Party, as I believe that Starmer has taken the party too far to the right.

However, I am going to vote Labour for the first time in my life in July for one simple reason: every vote for them increases the chances of the Conservatives being annihilated and effectively eliminated as a political force.

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Good

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I could turn this around the other way. If you are a right wing person, even if you don’t think the Tories are right wing enough, you’d be a fool to vote Reform because such a move only benefits Labour. Only I don’t say that too loudly, because I would very much like the Tories to get the right wing vote split instead of marching to power on about 25% of the vote.

I think it’s just not understanding the nature of first past the post. It’s a shit system, but it’s what we’re dealing with. You can’t vote idealistically. You have to decide who you don’t want to win and work backwards from there.

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