UK Politics Thread (Part 3)

Maybe that does happen, if you are referring to me, then I apologise if I have come across in that manner. You could however question the irony in your comment.
In the post I was replying to, you said;

Stating that I ignore ‘the fact’ is a bit condescending and could be seen to be taking the moral high ground. Especially, when the whole of your comment is opinion based.

Well, I have provided figures of the rise in popularity of Right Wing parties across Europe.
Your response was to dismiss “the facts” as sensationalised stories, and manufactured to create outrage. Irrelevant of whether the stories are true or not, or have a hidden agenda, a lot of people relate or buy into this.

You tell me. I don’t know the breakdown of why people have concerns with Immigration.
But I am pretty sure they are not all white and racist, and further more have no problem with the concept of immigration. But maybe, you can just Tar them all as Neo-Nazi’s.

My GF is Black, African and has finally got her British Passport. I am not going to put words in her mouth but she has concerns about immigration, from both sides.

I would not expect anything different regarding a)b)c).

Thank you for the link, I will take a look when I get a chance :+1:t2:

Oh boy :rofl:.

Where have I stated that they are an immigrant.

Again, the 1951 convention refers to ‘Refugees’, so it does not apply to everyone wanting to enter another country.

Points 1, 2 and 3, are kind of rhetorical. Is it answered in the 1951 convention?

:man_facepalming:t3: I know, which was what I was trying to explain to @Noo_Noo

A bit condescending.
Actually, what I don’t understand is why you felt entitled to educate me on something that you assume I don’t understand.

Anyhow, just to clarify. If an Immigrant enters the country illegally, therefore without a right to do so.
Not a refugee.
Not seeking Asylum on the basis of various grounds.
Not having the required paperwork.

Are they an illegal Immigrant?

Your original post on the matter where you clearly assume that everyonevarriving on a boat is an illegal immigrant because they have arrived by unorthadox means.

So my question to you is, how do you know?

Kinda wondering what the percentage of people is who enter ‘illegally’ by boat and then for some reason don’t even try to claim asylum.

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Zero I bet.

But if they claim asylum have they entered the country illegally?

No, not until their claim has failed.

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That is hardly the point. Social attitudes studies show that post Brexit, public attitudes on race, nationalism and populism have lurched to the right.

You’ll always have people with dodgy opinions, but the last few years have seen a marked emboldening of people’s confidence to form and air openly racist and xenophobic views.

Well, exactly. It seems to me that some people think you can tell whether people’s claims are ‘legitimate’ just by having one good look at them.

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Most likely. I would have thought the whole point of the boats by this point is to get stopped on the beach or by Navy in order to claim asylum, as they never get here without being intercepted.

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You need to spend less time on Twitter and Facebook

Luckily for you, no.

I am well aware though that I don’t have any moral superiority, and I wouldn’t call someone else pedantic.

Again, it’s not opinion-based, but based on the social science research that I have seen that I unfortunately do not have the time to look for again right now.

Not all Trump supporters are white and racist, and furthermore have no problem with the concept of immigration.

They just happen to form an uncomfortably large proportion of them.

Congratulations, you found an exception to the many, many people who are not black and African. Are you also going to tell me she can’t be racist too? Because I can tell you that many immigrants have a problem with immigration, simply because they feel as though they’ve fought so hard to get their status, that they deserve it and have to pull up the ladder behind them. Similarly, the racist abuse I have received has mainly come from ethnic minorities. Go figure.

I would say happy reading, but I find it quite tragic. No different from urban dwellers complaining about isolated examples of problems living rurally that don’t really represent the picture, but then generalising negatively and voting accordingly anyway.

Even if you were some part of a criminal gang trying to get in you’d take your chances claiming asylum, then doing a runner from the holding centre/ hotel or whatever.

You are responding as if I were being anecdotal. I’m referring to social attitudes studies.

You mean you don’t get your “evidence” from anecdata???

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I rather miss the good old days when they would start a phrase with “I’m not a racist but…” Now they just do a racism and look proud about it.

I don’t think it’s helped by media and politicians using US terminology that has no meaning in UK law and mislabeling refugees and confusing them with visa violations.

There are elements of irregular migration that everyone should be aware of and concerned about, because it concerns things like modern slavery violations. Unfortunately, they are usually not very visible.

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I rather miss the good old days when they didn’t feel compelled to start a phrase with “I’m not a racist” before making a perfectly reasonable point/ concern they have about uncontrolled immigration knowing full-well they were going to be labelled a fucking xenophobic, Daily Fail-reading, ignorant bigot by people who have zero tolerance for anyone expressing a different opinion to their own, but that’s just me.

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Uncanny how many people who throw rasist/racism accusations are often the worst kind of full blown racists
themselves

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Can you quote the post of mine that you refer to please.

Additionally, why have you answered a question that I have not asked? And why ask a rhetorical question that no one knows the answer to?

Our recent debate was regarding the above post. Iv quoted it for reference. In it you stated “people have a legal right to enter and claim asylum.” And “they do not become illegal immigrants until their claim has been processed and they have failed”.
So, I have used that ‘Tinternet’ thing - which you said wasn’t too hard to use (you are correct on this point) - done my research and replied.
But, “oh boy” you keep referring back to the 1951 convention, which applies solely to ‘Refugees’.

@Noo_Noo firstly, I know my post is condescending and I apologise for that.

Let’s just beg to differ and draw a line under this and move on.

:+1:t2:

Wow, who pissed on your chips?

I will respond in order to your responses.

  1. “I am well aware though that I don’t have any moral superiority”. What a statement, I’m sure there is some irony here?

  2. So for the time being it’s not fact? Could it be that the research is hypothetical?
    Also, you stated that I am ignoring the facts. How can I ignore facts, that I haven’t had the chance to ignore, because you haven’t had the time to provide me with them?

  3. :man_facepalming:t3: really. In your post, you implied that people reading RW rags Tar all brown and people of Pakistani origin as ‘Muslim’. Yet, in the majority of your posts you imply that all people who have concerns with Immigration are white racists. So you are basically Taring them with the same brush you are critical of.
    Further more you then reference Trump for no apparent reason and furthermore imply that a large proportion of them are white and racist - but in your defence you did say not all of them.

  4. I’m sure you mentioned somewhere previously about not taking the moral high ground.
    I think you have over stepped the mark, “congratulations you found an exception to the many, many people who are not black and African”.
    Maybe reflect on your use of wording, it comes across as a bit dehumanising.
    For clarity, I provided that information to give some context to the point that followed. As someone who has gone through the process of obtaining British citizenship she has concerns about immigration from “both side’s”!!!.
    The rest of your point is :exploding_head:.
    “Because I can tell you that many immigrants have problems with immigration” what through lived experience, social science research, facts??
    “The racist abuse I have received has mainly come from ethnic minorities”. What…not the white racists fuelled by the RW rags??

Please note, I am sorry that you have had to experience racist abuse.

So, to conclude, you agree that not all people who have concerns about immigration are all White racists, blinded by RW media??