Would you be entirely comfortable calling a jewish or muslim member of the Conservative party a gammon?
You mean because of the association with pork, and the way pork is treated by that faith group?
I canāt say it would bother me - Iām not literally calling them a pig. Calling them gammon wouldnāt be a motivated by their religion.
If someone really took genuine offence at being called āgammonā on religious grounds, Iād probably take that on board in the interests of being kind and reasonable, but we should also remember that gammon is only really ever used in response to people being vile and offensive themselves. And itās use is exclusively reserved for people in positions of relative comfort kicking down at people less fortunate than themselves.
Iāll say again, it might be offensive and unpleasant, but it certainly isnāt a racist insult. Racism is a dislike of someone because something about their appearance or culture (usually skin colour) is different to yours. Gammon is about behaviour. Itās a perjorative shorthand relating to the tendency of some (overwhelmingly) older white men to go pink in the face while frothing with rage about some perceived injustice, usually allied to a dislike of foreigners and misplaced patriotic pride. Iām not calling them gammon because they are pink. Iām calling them gammon because of the combination of prejudice, performative outrage and patriotism, coupled with their rotund, well-fed comfort, that makes them go a bit pink when they go off on one.
Over time the word āgammonā has become a bit of a catch all for the kind of brexity, xenophobic ranting that has spread from the exclusivity of older white men, to other demographics as well, and that is the way I would be using the term if I were calling Suella Bravermen a gammon.
If Suella said to me āIām a Jewish woman and I find that term offensive on religion groundsā, my response would be āIām sorry, I did not mean it in that way. I appreciate that you have a cultural dislike of pork product so I apologise. Iāll will find a different term in future. Got it. Youāre a cuntā
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The Student Loan Company is backed by the government but I donāt really know the āhowsā. I assume it has an āaccountā with the treasuryā from which it draws in a similar way to how benefits are handled, with an expectation as to how much this would likely total for a given year. The treasury then usually receives payment through the tax system. The government sometimes sells off these books of loans to raise money for immediate needs.
I think the loans are still charged at RPI+ rather than CPI+ which is the rate it uses for calculating other government spending. RPI is usually higher than CPI
I canāt remember the figures for these loans now, but I read that the BBC had looked at data from the SLC and saw that back in 2009 it was expected that students would leave university with a total debt of around Ā£43k. They estimated that this year 1.8m were in debts of Ā£50k+. 60k have balances of Ā£100k+. A very small number (about 50) have debt above Ā£200k.
Borrowing at one rate of interest and lending at a much larger rate can be thought of as clever accounting - but what impact is that having on students, graduates or even those now unwilling to go to University for fear of the debt it will incur. And what impact is it having on universities themselves that are finding it a challenge to get by especially now that there are fewer foreign students coming to the UK?
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The way student loans work is more like a graduate tax, but you have to apply for it. Itās probably not right to think of it like a bank loan, where that loan needs repaying regardless of other circumstances.
The ways loans work now is that you pay back a percentage based on your income over a threshold. I think itās something like 8% on everything you earn over Ā£25k a year.
Funding optional education is always going to be divisive, and there are valid arguments on each side. Why should someoneās further education be funded by general taxation? Why should someone who leaves school at 16 and goes into a trade be paying for someone to stay in education until they are 21, so they can earn more money than them? On the other hand, the country massively benefits from people going to university so why shouldnāt the country pay.
Personally I donāt like the way further education is funded, and I am very much in the camp that sees education as something that benefits the country and the country should see it as an investment (as aside, I would expect a lot of crossover on the Venn diagram of āIām not paying for some twat to go to universityā and āwe should train our own doctors and nursesā).
But the bigger impact is on social mobility. Tuition fees have undoubtedly put off many lower class people from attending university, and a system which means you can avoid debt if mummy and daddy can find 50k to help you out is always going to drive inequality.
I think I have a compromise. Letās start from the basis that university education is a good thing, and if you go to university you are likely to be enhancing your earning potential and future prospects.
Letās get rid of the loan system, and instead replace it with a proper graduate tax - which it almost is at the minute. Everyone who graduates from university is subject to a 8% tax on their earnings over 25k (or whatever the threshold is). Everyone who benefits from a university education has to pay for it and no-one gets off with thanks to mummy and daddy. You benefit (ie you reach a higher earning level) you pay.
I think that is much fairer, much more inclusive and makes university education much more accessible.
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I work in HE and have direct control over a significant budget, have been thinking of little else for months now.
Very fortunately, my little part of the world is in incredibly good shape, however, the sector is in real trouble. We should all expect a significant shrinking of providers over the next decade or so.
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I agree with the above, btwā¦
I would prefer UK students to enjoy free university.
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You forgot the massive.
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I see that Chris Philp has been appointed shadow home secretary.
They obviously couldnāt make him shadow foreign secretary, given that his knowledge of geography is somewhat sketchy.
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My colleagues whose schools have been all in on Indian and Chinese PGT students for a few years are in significant trouble.
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I love the āmeritocracyā remark.
Nekminitā¦Priti fucking Patel gets the job she has previously been punted from.
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Just as an aside, probably the only way Iām like @Dane is that I have a similar antipathy towards debt. I got rid of my credit card, and I donāt buy anything unless I have the money to pay for it. I hate the idea of owing money. Aside from my mortgage (which itself is very low - I saved up for ages and bought quite late, because I donāt like debt) I donāt have any debt.
When I left Uni, I had about two grand of student loans. I got a grant, my tuition was free, I was lucky enough to get some shares when my building society converted to a bank, and that mostly got my through my first couple of years. I had to take out a loan in my final year because I was properly running out of money.
A few years later, after Iād been working a while, Iād managed to save up some cash, so of course I immediately paid back my student loan. I wasnāt even over the repayment threshold.
I was feeling pretty good and I mentioned this to a mate in the pub later on. He hit the fucking roof.
I was really shocked. He explained that I would never have a loan again in my life that had such favourable terms, and I would have been better to take the two grand, put it in an ISA and pay the loan back from the proceeds.
I said that the woman on the phone was a bit surprised that I was paying back two grand in one go, and kept asking if I was sure? He said āYeah, thatās because it makes no sense you fucking idiotā.
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I also work in HE. Whatever way tuition fees/loans are spun, we are straddling our young people with debt that many will be paying off for the rest of their lives.
The biggest problem with the commodification of HE is that students sometimes see themselves as customers who are paying for their degrees. This brings huge challenges to assessment, rigour, and development of critical thinking in adult learners.
A bigger nettle to be grasped is that there are too many universities in the UK and some will inevitably have to close. There is an argument that HEIs taking students with low A-level grades is not the best thing for society or for the students themselves. Universities are forced to drop standards to take in bigger numbers/fees. And young people that donāt have the academic capacity can find university extremely stressful. Many of these could make a better living (and have less debt) by doing other forms of further education or vocational training
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Agree with every word.
I started off in casework; have seen the commodification of HE in far more detail than I would ever want to return to, from both points of view.
Love the point re the number of HEIs, too. It is certainly part of the conversation here. Choppy waters ahead, thatās for sure.
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One thing Iām really curious about is how the relationship between students and institution has changed over time.
My time at Uni bridged the introduction of fees and scrapping of maintenance grants. The tuition I got was on the whole piss poor, but you accepted that because you were sort of an afterthought, and research was where Uniās made their cash.
I remember speculating at the time that Uniās were going to be in for a shock when the turned students in customers with a right to demand a quality service for their money.
Should be means tested.
My lad got free tuition fees for his bachelors degree, but I paid for his masters.
He mentioned filling in a bursary form when he first enrolled, I told him not to waste his time.
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Anecdote:
I paid non-home fees, so around Ā£20k/year. In return I had lectures where I had to sit on the floor because there were no seats available. This was at a top-tier university too.
Absolutely atrocious, Iām not sure where all the money is going, genuinely. At least the teaching was good, but that was the only decent thing about it. Thankfully thatās the most important thing to me.
STUDENT: āMR @SBYM Iād like to talk about the quality of my educationā
SBYM: " Have a Pot Noodle."
Administrators
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Take the NHS.
Apparently 39,000 managers.
800 diversity and equality managers.
All earning shit loads more than nurses and porters no doubt.
True storyā¦
Golfing mate of mine has a sister in charge of a Glasgow hospital ward.
Every day, they receive delivery of 24 pints of milk, and pour 18 down the sink.
They have informed the buyer/logistic/procurement department literally several dozen times that they only need 6 pints a day, yet are told thatās the standard order.
Thatās one ward in one hospital in a national institution.
How many hundreds of thousands of pounds does this top heavy organisation waste while people wait for treatment due to backlogs caused by lack of funding?
That makes it sound as though some manager isnāt doing their job, or there arenāt enough managersā¦