The problem is, which @Jaffod called out is that to make an observation against a demo graphic you are deemed racists. In my opinion a stick is a stick.
For example my Fiancé is of Black African heritage. Do you know it is Racist to call a black woman angry because of historic tropes?
If she is screaming at me and I ask her why she is being aggressive I am in the wrong. Sorry, no! I am not using it to shut her down, I am using it because she is being angry. I would say the same thing to anyone, irrelevant, it’s my opinion based on reality.
So one for you all:
So, 8 of the top 15 postcodes for uninsured drivers fall in the Midlands. Out of the 8 only 1 (CV) is a predominantly white demographic. So is it racist for me to say that the majority of uninsured drivers in the 8 areas are of BAME?
Try driving through Birmingham on Friday during Friday prayers, cars parked on Islands, double parked, impeding junctions, Creating traffic issues. It’s not racist it’s an observation.
Yes, the Football games (Villa/Blues) can also create disruption but it is controlled (not an excuse).
As you touched upon, everyone has a bit of Racism/prejudice in them, just look at this thread.
But apparently only white people are capable of this, and if it ever happens the other way round it is justified as being acceptable due to Colonialism.
Fuck me, how long do you want to hold someone accountable? Why should anyone be judged on someone’s actions 600 years ago?
The ever growing problem with Society is that you defined by your view. If your view slightly strays from the “social media narrative” you are cancelled. There is no middle ground, you are labelled. Why engage in debate when you can shut someone down without having to educate yourself to counter the argument?
Person ‘A’ raises valid point, Person ‘B’ well I will just call you out as RW, saves arguing the point or you get a moron like @SBYM who will try and invalidate your opinion by highlighting a spelling mistake.
Yes, RW politics can be divisive but the Left are equally as guilty.
In my opinion, until the Left actually engage with the right, the whole world is going to become more and more volatile. I mean the Polls are only going one way - worldwide, but let’s sit in the mindset that I am right and the rest are just mis-educated….
Note. I am well aware that the RW also need to engage. My point is that the Left have this notion of taking the morale high ground and dismissing anything that challenges this.
Yup. It gets pulled out and disappears into dividends, hedge funds, pension funds, even savings accounts etc. Once there it doesnt come back. Well it can with time but what we are seeing more of is it much of it being extracted into the pockets of the super wealthy. Having nothing to fo with this huge cash amount they buy assets. Assets that are for sale as the state or whatever tries to generate more cash. Once you sell that asset you’ve truly lost it and any ability to generate cash flow or an economy from it.
Biggest waste examples I’ve seen occur further up the chain than stuff on the ground. By the time its reached construction it’s done.
Lets take HS2 as an example of an almighty cluster fuck that it is. Conservative government decides to build it. They put huge cash resources to get prelim. designs done and all that. When it comes to planning the same Conservative MP’s that supported it objected to the planning and literally forced it underground in tunnels. Back through the design loop we go combined with a pile of legal fees to boot. On top of that, given that its public procurement, the tender process for commissioning work is nuts. Now on the highway side its not too bad but other public sectors it gets truly stupid. Having to seek 3 quotes for bog roll supply and stuff that daft.
Anyway, back to HS2. So having blown their budget completely out of the water before a shovel has even broken ground there was a high level decision to make the various structures as robust as possible yo minimise maintenance. They did this by adding more concrete to cover the reinforcing steel. As an Engineer I welcome this, but the “managers” came in and said they need to save money. Back out to specialist consultants they go, at a cost, and the answer comes back to reduce this concrete cover to less than the design standard and paint it. Well fuck me they’ve just saved a lump of money on concrete (nothing else as the same effort of time and labour is required to build it) but just committed the UK tax payer to fund repainting these structures every 10 years for the next century. Thats before theres any accelerated deterioration arising as a result along with all the hassle of road rail closures etc. Plus its putting people at risk.
Lets not forget tge Boris Airport, The Boris tunnel and so on. He’s not alone. But the general lack of strategy, direction, changes in direction combined overly fat processes are examples of how we shit money down the drain.
I’m curious as to your definition of right wing. It’s a bit of a spurious term (as is left wing) as it can mean socially conservative, Laissez-faire economics, traditionalist, nationalist and a whole lot of other things.
“Moderately right wing” would be Christian Democratic. In the UK, the politics of John Major, for example.
I’d describe the Reform Party as right-wing populist, as they will jump on pretty much any old bandwagon that they think will grab them publicity. Their actual policies are both unfunded and actually at odds with many of their supporters, but I don’t think that matters to them.
Reform do fraternize with far-right groups in other countries, including the AfD in Germany who are openly far-right, have been classified as extremist by the country’s security services, and have good relations with other neo-Nazi groups.
Because, when people start to struggle and get fed up (largely due to the issues I’ve mentioned above) they look for someone who offers solutions. Populists rise from that discontent. They need an enemy to blame and immigrants are always high on the list as a target. “They are not us, and not the same” stuff. Easy to blame an “enemy” rather than looking at the policies you support which caused this issue in the first place.
I really think your Overton window needs recalibration. It’s really strange to describe Reform as moderately right wing. They might not be as far right as the European parties you have mentioned (although I’d argue in some respects they are) but they are as far right a serious proposition in British politics that we’ve had for a long while.
It is a very easy question to answer, and it’s been discussed many times in this thread. Far right politics, authoritarianism and Fascism thrives in poverty.
This was true in the thirties in Germany, after the treaty of Versailles plunged Germans into appalling hardship. It’s true today all around the world as neoliberal economic policies have created extreme inequality - far more of the wealth funnelled to ever fewer people, and the rest fighting over scraps.
Just as it was in Germany, the far right focus people’s anger on a much easier narrative of “It’s those people that are the problem. They are taking your jobs, your benefits, your public spending. Not angry enough? They are raping your women and targeting your children. Still not angry enough? They are eating our fucking swans, mate!”
Far right politics doesn’t develop in a vacuum. It needs economic hardship to flourish, and that’s prevalent all over the world.
You know the answer. The fact that you are preemptively mocking the answer in your question suggests that you understand this very well, you just don’t want it to be true.
The reason there is no money is because the wealth in this country has been siphoned into the pockets fewer people. The Tories oversaw a massive transfer of wealth from less well off people to the super rich. When the Tories took office there were around 20 billionaires in the UK. When they left there were around 200. That is a staggering statistic that highlights the extent to which the nations finances have been transferred. During Cameron’s austerity years the wealthiest 100 families in the UK literally doubled their wealth. Think about how wealthy those families already were. It’s sickening.
Rich people want you to believe in the trickle down effect. They want you to think that a rising tide lifts all boats, but that is obviously nonsense.
Less well off people spend money. Even relatively well off middle class people spend money. Spending money is good for the economy, and money in the economy fuels growth. It ends up wending its way back to Government in tax revenue and can be reinvested.
Very wealthy people can already buy anything they want. They don’t have any needs or even wants that are unmet. So if we give them more money - and over a decade and a half we’ve given them hundreds of billions - we never see that money again. It’s gone, spirited away into offshore bank accounts and hedge funds.
That is the really simple answer to your question of where the money has gone.
Sorry, but this bit had me laughing out loud. The German government pays money for these people, shelter, homes, clothes etc. We do know how many people receive asylum money. That’s the money the get once their asylum claim is processed (some also continue to get money, if their claim is rejected, for various reasons). We also know how many people receive Bürgergeld (citizen’s money, essentially money for people with no or little work/income) after that or in the case of Ukrainians (due to a privilged status) right away (that’s currently about 700k Ukrainians alone on said benefit, another 500k just from Syria) or various other forms of social benefits. We also know if they drop out of these payments because they found a job (roughly half of them, goes up the longer they stay, obviously).
No, Germany isn’t just some kind of a temporary transfer country because it has many borders (all with ‘safe countries’ of course btw).
Speaking as someone who perpetuates this sort of thing, i.e. speaking English, I think if people in some non-English speaking country are going to learn a foreign language then it’s more likely to be the international lingua-Franca that is English rather than the language of their former colonizers.
So for people from countries such as Afghanistan or Syria, if they’re heading to Europe then they’re more likely to want to go the country where the official language is the one foreign language they have some ability in.
I have long thought exactly what @Mascot alluded to, that the influx of immigrants to the UK and Ireland can be blamed on EFL teachers around the world.
I honestly believe they are, it’s just that they know just how far they can push. Farage has history, including singing Nazi songs while in college, being Enoch Powell’s no. 1 supporter and driver for that matter. More recently he’s been showing full support for what the government has done in Argentina. In that same interview he admits he could not go that far in the UK “yet”, despite admitting he would like to.
I am not mocking the answer, I am mocking the rhetoric that I hear to every problem.
Iv had this Billionaire debate before. Why don’t you try providing context and compare those figures to other Countries??
Since 2015-2025:
UK 117 - 156 +39
Germany 123 - 171 +48
Australia 74 - 171 +97
The UK is ranked number 29 per Capita. Ireland is number 14.
Also just to clear up the factually unchecked figures you alluded to, there were 53 Billionaires in 2010 at the start of the Coalition.
So not 20 and not upto 200.
The World as a whole has seen the Rich get Richer - Filthy rich, I don’t deny. It is horrible and obscene that such a small percentage of the Worlds population own so much wealth. So let’s not make it a solely UK/Tory excuse.
Regarding the point you raise about Taxes and Revenue.
Nb. I say this with no factual data.
Taxes - should it be more of a concern as to where the poor to well off spend their money?
Taxis - Uber, Coffee’s - Costa/Starbucks, products - Amazon, SHEIN, Fast food delivery - just eat/deliveroo, etc.
How much does the UK public pay to these Companies, who avoid paying Tax via numerous loop holes?
Local Government spending - Iv done Birmingham City Council numerous times as an example of how to waste the publics money, maybe because it’s a Labour Council you don’t wish to discuss?
A Council happy to charge poor people, who can’t afford CAZ compliant Car’s, £8 to enter the City Centre as it’s a council focused on reducing emissions and yet they won’t negotiate with Unite - A historical Labour supporter - in regards to the Bin strike which has seen no House hold recycling collections since March.
@Mascot I mean no offence, but you need to stop blaming the UK’s problems on “previous government(s)” or “Rich people” for the situation we are in - even if that is the case.
Maybe, discuss a solution? Be open minded as to what Labour could have done better. I am pretty sure throwing blame onto everyone for the UK’s current predicament is not going to help its future.
My post was not trying to educate anyone on Germany or an other countries Asylum policy. It was speculative based on Germany’s location.
So, Germany has numerous borders and is land locked. So for many seeking asylum/resettlement it is the first stepping stone.
So 200k people enter Germany, claim resettlement - in order to live - and then look to move/resettle in/to another Country.
Germany provides the applicants with a larger number of destinations, which would naturally see the resettlement figures diluted, Country by Country until the applicants reach their preferred destination.
I don’t know the answer on this, which is why I was being speculative in my initial post .
Of they have had asylum granted or they have a German work or residency visa, they can only work or reside in Germany. They would presumably be free to apply to move to another country, but that is the same from anywhere.
As I have said, I don’t know how the resettlement figures are worked out. So I don’t know if the applicants moving on is accounted for in those figures.
The figures I remember seeing were 20 to 200, but I might be getting it wrong. The point is that there are lots more billionaires now, and billionaires neither pay tax, nor economically contribute and that’s where the money has gone. But we can have your figures, it’s doesn’t really matter - a hundred more billionaires created under the Tories is still obscene. A billion pounds is a fuck tonne of money. If more people truly understood the difference between a million and a billion there would be rioting.
And it isn’t like wealth is capped at a billion pounds, is it? Here is another stat that should make your eyes water - the 50 richest families in the UK now hold 50% of the nations wealth. That is appalling, but what isn’t immediately obvious in that stat is that the billionaire class have unprecedented ability to use their wealth to frustrate, lobby against, and poison public opinion against any progressive policy aimed at tackling inequality - as we saw when Labour introduced VAT on private schools and taxed farm inheritance.
[quote=“Lynch04, post:3671, topic:4542, full:true”]
Regarding the point you raise about Taxes and Revenue.
Nb. I say this with no factual data.
Taxes - should it be more of a concern as to where the poor to well off spend their money?
Taxis - Uber, Coffee’s - Costa/Starbucks, products - Amazon, SHEIN, Fast food delivery - just eat/deliveroo, etc.
How much does the UK public pay to these Companies, who avoid paying Tax via numerous loop holes? [/quote]
You are conflating two different issues here.
I’m talking about the difference between giving Rich people money (who won’t spend it) and giving poor/middle income people money (who definitely will)
Obviously it would be even better for the economy if companies like Amazon and Costa paid their taxes.
But it is still more beneficial for the economy for poorer people to be spending their cash in Costa, than it is for rich people to be offshoring it.
When Cameron went big on austerity he did so on the claim that 50% of all government spending is wasted. He got this claim from the OBR, who got it from the IMF.
The problem is that the IMF were forced to admit that this figure was flawed. It probably averages out at 50%, but there is a huge difference in how much money is returned across various policy measures. And it turns out that that policies that favour poor people - like welfare, benefits, investments in transport etc - eventually return more money than is spent. Whereas policies that favour wealthy people - like tax cuts - return virtually nothing.
[quote=“Lynch04, post:3671, topic:4542, full:true”]
Local Government spending - Iv done Birmingham City Council numerous times as an example of how to waste the publics money, maybe because it’s a Labour Council you don’t wish to discuss?
A Council happy to charge poor people, who can’t afford CAZ compliant Car’s, £8 to enter the City Centre as it’s a council focused on reducing emissions and yet they won’t negotiate with Unite - A historical Labour supporter - in regards to the Bin strike which has seen no House hold recycling collections since March. [/quote]
Perhaps you can point me to my staunch defence of Birmingham Council’s stance on the bin strike? I don’t recall making it.
I will defend the clean air zone to the hilt, on the basis that poor people are literally killed by air pollution in dense inner cities, 80% of cars are unaffected, and the public transport options (which people should be using regardless of clean air zones) are perfectly fine. The CAZ has almost halved car use in the inner city and this will save lives.
I don’t really understand what this has to do with the point being raised, but there you go.
What the fuck? I’m not even sure how to respond to this
I need to stop blaming the previous government or rich people for the mess we’re in even if that if the case
If it is the case that the Tories and their Rich mates are to blame for the mess we’re in, why should I stop blaming them? What kind of fucking argument is this?
You see, you can suggest I’m biased towards Labour all you like, but pearls like this show your sympathies far more.
I have a huge amount of understanding for the situation Keir Starmer is in, given the mess he has inherited. We’re barely over a year into this government and the extent to which people had decided that this was the worse government ever, before he’d even sat down at his desk was astonishing - like I say, ungovernable nation.
On the other hand, I have disagreed with a lot of their core strategy, with relation to Reform. They are allowing Farage to drag them on to his territory and making the fight about Immigration and free speech, and that’s insane. They are desperate to show how tough they want to be on immigration, and they need to remember that there is a left/progressive wing to lose, while they are trying to appeal to racists.
My figures are quoted in the report you linked. So, shall we take them as true or just on my say so?
I have stated numerous times that the Rich are getting Richer and you are right it is appalling. This is not a recent issue though is it, it has happened since the beginning of time.
Regarding VAT on private schools and Farm inheritance tax, you are generalising that every parent that wants to provide their children with Private Education is a Tory, Milionaire/billionaire tax dodger and that every farmer is cash rich.
Lobbying works two ways and we know that.
Look I am not disagreeing with the points you are making, far from it. But, it is small change and still you have to spend that money wisely!
I am not conflating two different issues, both relate to Tax revenue. You said the less well of spend more money, if so then is isn’t important where they spend it?
I haven’t said you have defended Birmingham City Council. My point was you haven’t even referenced it. Why it hasn’t been resolved and why it will be one of the reasons Labour lose the City! But, you will just blame the Tories and Billionaires.
The Government provided money and grants to BCC for the Commonwealth games and guess what, they ended up more in debt. Athletes villages wasn’t completed in time and sold off at a loss. The Tram system that was promised is STILL BEING BUILT!! Which leads me nicely into….CAZ.
CAZ, do you know the Zone it covers? Do you know if/how many poor people live in the area? Do you know it does not provide little/to no cover for the people living in the zone? Also, you have 24hrs to pay, if you forget, the charge is tripled with almost a computer says no to appeals and is then forwarded to the Debt collectors.
Yet the Rich can drive in to the City Centre in their big SUV’s.
Most of all, do you know the terms and conditions of the scrappage scheme?
Have you spoken to the poor people affected by Air Pollution? No. You are fortunate enough to speak from a position of privilege, in a house situated in a village with the luxury of clean(er) air.
@Mascot I appreciate we have exchanged views and at times not always civil. I have apologised for my part and I mean that sincerely. The last sentence, of the above paragraph is not a dig at you, we all have different ‘life circumstances’ and different ‘lived experiences’.
Sadly, I find this forum an echo of today’s society of which the Left and Right are equally as guilty. The Left have their views and in an ideal world they would be perfect, but we don’t live in an ideal world. The middle/centre right also have their views and concerns which need to be heard but rather than listen to them, they are dismissed, labelled and at times mocked.
The Irony of this, is that people will blame the RW media, for people turning to Reform. When in reality all they are is a party that “promises” to listen to them. So would it not be wise for Labour/Lib Dem to listen to them? Or is it better to have Reform in power and be all smug about being right?
A good question and one I don’t have an answer to. It appears to me that any party or view that goes against the left is deemed RW.
Obviously the whole LW/RW originated in France, from the Revolution, I think its definition has been hijacked since.
My opinion, is that it is just a tool to shut someone who has a different view down. I mean you label someone RW and they are instantly viewed differently, which is wrong. By dismissing a persons view because it does not align with yours causes resentment and can lead to a build up in tension.
It would be ignorant of me to dismiss the idea that some members of Reform do not fraternise with the AFD/other parties or have Racist views. I accept that.
The point I keep trying to make, is that there is an increasing rise in support for parties aligned with RW views. This is world wide!!
How long do the Left ignore them and dismiss them as Racists/Facists? I mean, how big of a vote turn out for these parties will make people think, “erm, maybe we need to listen”.
As it stands, I predict reform will win the next General Election. The majority of this forum and the Left in general, will blame the RW media targeting the Left for this. When really, the Left taking the morale high ground and not listening will be its true demise.
Sadly, the left have not learnt anything from the Referendum. I suppose it is easier to mock, laugh at the opposition and their views leading upto the vote and then call everybody but themselves stupid and ignorant afterwards
Don’t be so melodramatic.
Provide me with a definition of Far Right politics, and then let me debate it with you.
I already have enough ammunition on Labour MP’s who fall into “Far Right” politics.
