I’m not sure, but there seems to be a long history of the MoD buying what the arms industry wants to sell them, rather than what they need. Part of this is the problem that the armed forces tool up for the wars that they have just fought, rather than the future threat.
Public financing seems to be set up to benefit private contractors.
The Defence Sec has just finished a press conference in which he spoke of a Russian spy ship at the edge of British waters just off Scotland pointing lasers at RAF pilots.
Let it slip to our special friends that they could be Venezuelan…
(so wrong - apologies)
Nar, that was the plot of S1 of the Diplomat
Grow a set of balls, and sink the fucker!
Yeah, let’s have a thermonuclear war. Why the fuck not.
you think Putin would launch a nuclear bomb on the UK if the RAF sank the ship in retaliation for targeting the plane with a laser?
Could mentioning this - now - be linked to a extra ask from the coffers than an actual threat.
edit
p.s. we don’t have the means to do anything about it so grin and bare is the posture…
I’d be all for having the boat accidentally fall out of a window. That doesn’t seem to cause too much fuss elsewhere.
I’d be on the side of sinking the ship.
Putin is a bully, and he does what he likes on the international stage because he has thousands of nukes behind him.
Two choices emerge. Accept the status of being his bitch, or stand up to him. I have no geopolitical experience, only what comes hard earned from the playground. Stand up to him.
There is no way, whatsoever, that he wants mutually assured destruction.
While sinking it would not trigger thermonucelar war unless the Russians wanted it to (they would only do so if Russia was under threat of being overrun, not to retaliate for a spy ship, so absolutely no), it would trigger a major diplomatic challenge and be seen as too agressive by many states (Russia would deny the laser hybrid bullying), therefore be self defeating and much too agressive and cowboy. Any overt retaliation must always be proportionate.
A far more prudent and logical retaliation against Russia that every European state that is sabotaged by Russia should do in, ideally, concert, is striking back with own hybrid efforts. Sabotage. Many options. You don’t need to even sink it, if Ru must send tugs, or more humiliating, ask NATO states for help; mission accomplished.
Russia committs sabotage against almost all European states weekly, but no one punches back. One must punch back. But not by such a big escalation. There are many ways to hurt Russia with sabotage, not only this ship. They would get such messages, recalculate, alter behaviour.
Boombing the ship is much too aggressive under current geopolitical tension. The West should strike back against Russia, but not not in any way or manner that Russia could claim we escalate.
But really, this laser thing isn’t SO serious, more a symptom of a bigger behavioural problem from Russia. Earlier this week they attempted to blow up significant parts of the Polish Railway, with the likely intention of derailing trains as well. That’s rather worse.
I was exaggerating for comic effect, as I presumed you were.
You presumed wrong.
I was been very serious, as fed up with Russia and its constant probing and trouble making across europe
Its time some country pushed back hard, and not just put more sanctions on Russia
Anyway this is probably for another thread…
No need to sink a ship. Shadow it and when it breaks some silly maritime law arrest the captain and bring the ship into port. That’s a very frustrating thing to do.
I believe what all of you are getting at, is to hire Diego Simeone, Jose Mourinho, and Sean Dyche as national security experts.
I think if we in the western countries were actively engaged in concerted sabotage efforts against Russia, as a reciprocal sort of thing, there would be no calls for sinking the ship as we would clearly be doing something to defend ourselves.
It’s in the absence of doing anything to deter Russia that frustration grows, as Putin continues to do what he wants, when he wants, completely unchecked by a bunch of suits and talking heads across the EU.
Has the US, our special friend, played the perfect hand?
Europe is enslaved to the US. Any global vision was ceded to the US to maintain the status quo but things happen we were “happened” in a way.
Russia would declare that as an act of war and label it as aggression using it as an excuse to launch attacks against Europe. Only way to stop it is to mark the ship and inform the captain that he is committing an act of war and sink the ship if he doesn’t return to Russia immidiately.
The US is a sh*tshow under Trump! It definitely has not played a perfect hand, and in my view is an unreliable ally.
Maybe Ukraine can try to wait it out until the Trump term passes, in the hope that relations with America might turn back in a more stable and reliable direction? I don’t know if they can do that, and I don’t know if after Trump, America might get another weak-toward-Russia leader. Too many variables for Ukraine to rely on.
Hence Ukraine needs to get security elsewhere.
It is doing an admirable job fighting tooth and nail, but in the end the larger aggressor will probably get what it wants, unless something changes.
I don’t know what might change, but the EU should see Russia as a giant threat near to its border and make plans accordingly, at the least by arming Ukraine until the cost hurts. It will be a lot less expensive than the alternate, assuming Russia continues with its expansionist plans.
I hope that Europe will come to realise that there are horizons beyond beyond being enthralled and indentured to the US. Part of that is to realise that neighbours and near neighbours can require asbos.