I hope you had a good Labor day and thank you for answering my questions.
I appreciate there was additional information in your post. But if all bond markets are seeing the same fundamental discomfort why use it to support your comment about the UK kicking the can down the road until 2036?
An interesting point you made is about the short Truss tenure. Could it be argued that her brief stint affected the UK more than Brexit?
I guess an analogy is best when it aligns with your thoughts.
I think anyone suggesting the vote was going to be a brief walk in the rain followed by glorious weather is delusional. Why are people so insistent on speaking for a Leave Voter, proclaiming to understand their reasoning and their expectations. If people want to assume that this was the common mindset of a Leave voter, maybe they should stand by their analogy and by their own admission in that it was never going to be a short walk in the rain accept that it may be a longer walk in the rain and stop judging it.
I referred to 1973 when we joined, was that a short walk in the rain and sunnier days there after?? If the days were so sunny, why were people willing to vote for a short walk in the rain to come to the same sunny day? Surely if everything was so perfect you wouldnāt take the risk.
Anyhow, thankfully I was wise and brought my Brolly with me and a fresh pair of wellies.
This is the kind of protest/demo that blows up on itself,interfering in anyway with the RNLI can only be counter productive as their object is saving life at sea,which is another rule which should be sancrosant,fella called Trump doesnāt seem to worry about that,either.
Worth thinking about.
Demonstrating is fine,but there is often a much bigger picture to be considered,like clashing with the police is not smart.
The idea is to get people onside,not put them offside.
Iām not sure what they are protesting against. The RNLI will guide migrant boats into port where they are dealt with by the police and immigration officials. Maybe they would rather that they were murdered at sea? Iām assuming that volunteers would rather not have an appearance at the Hague.
My brother gave me a couple of links, Iāll stick them on another thread.
I was reading at the weekend that at large protests the police will often hold back from arresting people on the day due to not enough manpower - each arrest will take away officers from marshalling the event. The idea is that they follow up with the arrests afterwards - although if people are wearing balaclavas Iām not sure how they know who to arrest and build a case?
Having spent a depressing part of my evening looking at what people are saying about the RNLI, yes. That is exactly what the want.
They want the RNLI to make a judgement call on whether to rescue someone based on whether they are an immigrant, and if they think they are leave them to drown. It isnāt clear how the RNLI is to undertake this administrative task while people are swallowing sea water, nor is it clear what they expect the consequences to be if they get this wrong. It isnāt clear how they expect the RNLI to be the vanguard of Britain breaking Maritime Law, or how the RNLI should go about breaking its legal mandate to mount rescue at sea as required by HM Coastguard and the Government.
But then, there are a lot of things that arenāt clear about what goes through the brains of people who attack the RNLI.
Dont agree with attacking people from the RNLI,
Its stupid and anyone who does will only lose any support there is for their cause.
There was a debate on radio 2 a while ago about the RNLI and saving migrants at sea,
1 of the arguments was that the RNLI was been used as a taxi service for boats with migrants in them,
It was suggested that when the boats leaves france and enters international waters the RNLI are phoned to come and help as the boat had run into problems
They will respond to calls from the coast guard. Itās a low number of migrant boats that the RNLI will attend and that will generally be when people are overboard. The UK Border Force deal with the boats because they have the capacity for it.
The RNLI donāt make judgement calls on this. Itās a very small part of their work (around 1% of callouts). They certainly donāt go looking for them.
This has come up a lot and people keep saying it, and itās nonsense.
The RNLI is directed by the UK coastguard to respond to people or boats in distress.
The incident in Portsmouth was an example of this. The boat the RNLI were called out to was not suitable for the journey it had undertaken (a much longer crossing than usual) and it was in one of the UKs busiest shipping lanes. By any definition it was in danger.
Once that determination is made the RNLI job is to get them to safety. Debates on politics and immigration are rightly secondary.
Just on the Border Force, one of the sources of frustration from the Portsmouth landing seems to be that the authorities knew they were coming, and set up tents to deal with them on arrival, leading to people saying it was planned, they were welcomed, it was a transfer etc.
Well, yeah. I imagine the Border Force were tipped off that a boat with 120 people in it were bound for Portsmouth. At which point I imagine weāll want to get them in the system rather than have them arrive on an empty beach and just disappear into the country?
I genuinely have no idea what people want when it comes to immigration.
@Lynch04 Iāve deleted the opening sentence of this post as it contravenes the thread rule of not attacking other posters, but have opted to keep the restā¦ this time.
It feels like youāre sailing a bit too close to the wind in a lot of other places though, so Iād consider this a gentle warning to refamiliarise yourself with the thread rules in the opening post, then moderate your tone and language where appropriate if you donāt want to fall afoul of those rules again.
The RNLI donāt save migrants, they save people. And attacking them for doing so is not just wrong, itās disgusting, reprehensible, and should be condemned as such.
These men and women risk their lives regularly for us all, with no discrimination as to who you might be, and they will do so without hesitation.
We should be appalled at these attacks, and those doing it should be ashamed and called out.
I imagine most dont realize the lifeboat crew is entirely voluntary. There are paid roles within the RNLI, but the actual crew who go out onto the water are with maybe very exceptions, all volunteers from the community. It is something they do for nothing more than the love their community and maybe the chance of a free pint they next time they go into the local pub after coming back from a call out.
I still to this day remember vividly the pride all over my godfather the day he got back from his first call out after having been doing it a year and failing every time prior to get the station in time to make it onto the boat.
There seems to be a complete detachment from what is happening in the real world and what goes on in their minds. I suspect that part of it is because they are detached from what is actually happening.
There was someone on the previous thread who made what I thought was a perfectly valid point: that poor areas were being used for dumping asylum seekers (who presumably canāt contribute to the area) with absolutely no support for either. However, what I am constantly seeing is people picking on 2nd and 3rd generation black and asian people as if they are the problem.
I have the feeling that what many people experience when they talk about immigration is simple, āpeople I donāt like the look ofā.
You dropped out one of the drivers I mentioned - the large tranche of spending and therefore debt induced by covid. Most Western governments have that in common, and most have been using an era of low interest rates to make that work - the problem being that that era appears to be coming to an end. The recent run up in gilt yields isnāt because the market thinks Burnham will do an appreciably worse job than Starmer in managing finances, I would say the increase in yields is more down to global turmoil. The key point however is that the UK has less fiscal headroom than most - the UK borrows 10-year money at 5x the yield it did in 2016, but most of that difference predates this summerās bond market turmoil.
The Truss question is an interesting one. I donāt think you can really compare her tenure as a shock to Brexit, but in yield terms a very large share of the increase of the past decade is during that time. I think in absolute terms, Brexit was a larger disruption, however Truss illustrated how delicately poised British public finances actually were by completely ignoring the problem - which has badly weakened fundamental confidence.
Which in turn gets to the point of the analogy - there certainly were some Leave voters who believed there would be no or low costs in the near-term (Germany sells too many cars, etc). That is not meant to characterize all Leave voters. Equally, Leave voters can be dismayed the post-2016 policy choices have resulted in a cost scenario much worse than what they anticipated. Some may have foreseen a decade of flat growth and been quite willing to bear those costs.