War in Iran : Trump's latest misadventure

Away End - General Chat
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Livvy, he is wrong. It is not a violation of International Law.

It’s nasty, but it is no violation and no war crime (I also posted the video above, not that I mind that it’s posted more).

It would have been a violation had it not been in international waters (for instance in Indian waters). But since it is in International Waters, it is very legal. There is no advanced warning given to war-ships when at war before you shoot at them, unless you want to do that. But it is not required by law.

I posted the video because I wanted to make a point that it is ungentlemanly conduct and that it was unecessary to kill them (at least sink it without warning), but it is not a war crime.

The war crime is launching the war. But using a submarine to sink a frigate is not at all a war crime.

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https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule20

Note here, it says merchant vessel, not military craft:

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https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/submarine-warfare-rules-1930/article-22

War is hell, usually also very dishonourable. Ambushes are common.
The problem is the war itself, that is illegal. But when a war has started, that crime is set aside and it does not automatically become a crime if individual units shoot at other units. The crime is going to war, not fighting it (unless war crimes are involved in fighting it, such as targeting of civilians and etc.)

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I suppose this is a burn.

Breaking news. Syrian President Ahmad al-Sharaa in a statement:

“We contacted the Iranian leadership to settle Syria’s debts, but we couldn’t find anyone.”

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Iraqi Kurds are totally denying these reports.
There are reports of Iranian kurds being used though. But numbers are unclear. Many think it is a disinfo campaign to panic the Iranians and make them reposition troops…

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Wait.

Okay…

It is illegal to attack a warship in International Waters if you are not at war. Technically, the mentally handicapped people in Washington claims that they are not at war (while their armed forces claim they are). So who is right? Well, legally, I am pretty sure that everyone else apart from Trump speakers agree that they are at war. Sort of complicated, but only because the Americans are going about this in a particularly stupid manner. War Laywers would say it is not a war crime, since after all, the US is at war; whatever they call it.

Stupidly complicated and I am getting a headache by the contradictions.

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It’s ugly, but the Party of God is truly hated…

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I have friends who are going to the UK and Europe this summer and I advised them about the shifting attitudes toward Americans. Like me, they didn’t vote for any of this shit, and they are staunchly against.

Hopefully people will not assume all Americans are cut from the same Trumpian cloth.

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Dragging in unwilling combatants and making diplomatic problems for everyone with this irresponsible war; Part (a very high number).

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Normal people don’t. Believe me, we find out extremely fast when we chat with you lot if you are MAGA or not.

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It’s like a Trasformers movie, just with even more soundbytes

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On a related note my daughter bought me a lovely LFC cap. It’s red. :flushed_face:

I don’t wear it as I cannot risk being confused with some other red hat wearing loons.

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Don’t worry, it has a logo, does it not ? Don’t cower, you are a very, very good man and have nothing to be ashamed of. I understand the worry though and wish you didn’t have to have these kinds of worries.

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Yep, it has the club crest. Still, I’m just put off from wearing a red hat at the moment.

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Sad that you feel the need to do that, but I really understand you. I hope you will, some how, get to escape that kind of discomfort and shame sooner rather than later. But I really understand the mechanism involved and deeply sympathise with you.

Not much else I can do but wish you the best though.

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Cheers Magnus. I wear my Liverpool top when the match is on at the weekend. I’m checking the calendar to see if I might be able to go up to Chicago with my lad for the summer tour. The hat thing isn’t a big sacrifice. Weird times though. I moved here from the UK 17 years ago and I hope somehow America can find itself again and get on a better path.

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But its not trumpian cloth though is it? Regardless of who is in power be it democrats or republicans , the whole set up of the country is horrible, as long as american petrol prices are kept low, they dont give a fuck what happens with their geopolitical moves abroad that fucks up other countries , yeah they may moan and groan but as long as it keeps their economy ticking and doesn’t really hit them…they dont really care if 100 people or 10,000 people die in countries like Iran or Iraq.

I really dont think you understand the shifting attitudes towards America, it as a country is genuinely hated, its only because the western media is predominately nothing more than a white house mouth piece that pushes the american agenda that its taken so long for people to realise how far the corrupt nature of western democracies is entrenched in all this bullshit.

America , debates amongst itself and about their “god given rights” when nutters decides to shoot and kill school kids in their own country, that alone should tell you how crazy the country is , rather than taking action that most people would support and ban this shit from happening , you debate and allow politicia s to be brought by nra etc to defend it and offer prayer etc etc.

When 160 plus school girls are basically slaughtered bombed by an illegal war brought about by your countries actions you ignore it as a nation because of what?..half of the idiots that you day are trumpians etc believe in it and chant usa usa at a drop of a hat…but america has had this sort of idiots a long time before trump came.

As i said honestly i dont think Americans really understand the hatred that the world feels for them, you bomb and slaughter people in the middle east, and thats is more or less ok for you as a nation because “hey , were the worlds superpower and can do what we want, whose going to stop us ?”

And now you decide to do what you want in southern America, you have pissed off and threaten to take over Canada, you insult sacrifices when nato troops answer the triggering of article 5 and die for attacks on american soil ( again caused by years of american policy in the middle east ) and then threaten to take over place like greenland because of "national security)…blah blah blah…and now European governments maybe are beginning to realise exactly what sort of ally the states really is, trump is not the problem, trump is the result of american arrogance .

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Meanwhile I am observing a spectacular Ukrainian strategic strike on Russia from…Abkhazia !!! , but since I am on Feb 20 in the Ru invasion thread, it will be a few days before I post that one there.

But note what I said. Ukraine is attacking from Russian occupied Abkhazia (Georgia, must have smuggled a ton of drones in, don’t ask me how), which of course gives them a very different angle and reach. Ingenious !!!

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Much, much salt needed. This is internal feel good propaganda most likely.

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Vroom, vroom. Shaheds are getting through nicely.

Sounds like Indian guest workers observing it. Or Pakistanis, will not pretend to be able to distinguish.

Yes

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I agree with all that. America, as with most superpowers throughout history, has not exactly covered itself in glory. I only hope the rest of the world is able to see that what is happening is not being done in every American’s name. Many millions, just like across the globe, are strongly against, and are working for, and longing for, a better day.

An analogy might be Nazi Germany. Many Germans were strongly against, and they were liberated from Hitler just as much as the rest of the world was.

It’s not that bad here yet. But there is a strong sense in which a criminal organization, headed by Trump, has hijacked the country and is bending it to his will, having tamed and suppressed supposed coequal branches of government. He is aided and abetted by a billionaire class that is wielding havoc across the globe in numerous ways, not least in the broken information system and the media we consume. It’s all in the name of money, power, greed.

Politics is an old school, noble pursuit. The problem is that in most systems it requires gentlemen, or to make the language more gender friendly, it needs good people acting in good faith. We are miles away from that in America. I haven’t lived in the UK for a while, so I’ll leave you to form your own judgment as to the calibre of the politicians there.

We will see if we have another fair-ish election in America. If we don’t, and if Trump steals it or suppresses it in a huge way, the country is in grave danger.

If the midterms happen, reasonably fairly, I am certain that it will hit Trump hard because the majority of people are just not with him. It could potentially help lead to his demise. Not to mention the appalling Epstein business. I still have hope that enough truth will come out there that it will sink Trump and others.

Please don’t lump all Americans in with what you are seeing unfold. And in return, I won’t assume that you voted for Brexit (what the hell were my countrymen thinking there?) and I won’t assume that you can’t wait to install the UK’s own Trump-lite, the repugnant Nigel Farage.

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