When does a great summer become too much change?

We won the league! Building on a position of strength is great work.

Wirtz.. amazing.
Upgrade LB.. yes.
Replace TAA.. needed.
Swap backup CB for a better one.. yes strengthens us.
Better 9.. if you can find one!

But that’s already 5 changes to a winning team and squad.

I can see a few of the squad leaving without huge impact now - Robbo, Elliot, Morton.

BUT… Diaz? Gomez? We all love shiny things. We all want Slot to build his own team. But when is it too much change to a winning formula?

Am I just being the usual LFC fan paranoid? Genuine debate.

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Ive been thinking on the same lines.

I don’t think it’s too much of a change, and will affect our winning formula.

As long as the new players are compatible to our style, and have the right attitude, there’s hardly any cause for concern. All the new players will replacing fringe players, and Robertson who is definitely downhill, so, it’s not like we will have a big squad either.

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In the last 2 years we’ve replaced our entire midfield 3. That’s been extremely smooth.

Kerkez is an upgrade and will improve us. Frimpong is exciting and will already have an understanding with one of the main players he’ll interact with. Wirtz is a natural.

Even if we bring in Guehi and a new number 9 those won’t be immediate starters so any transition can be organic.

I’m not concerned at all.

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I guess my point was I am happy right now. It’s an upgrade.

But if we sold Gomez, Diaz…. When do we start to worry. When does the identity of the team need rebuilding?

I guess the management know what they are doing.

The changes the playing unit is undergoing are significant, but I think this might allay folks’ concerns a bit:

“Apart from maybe 3 or 4 starters, the entire [Feyenoord] XI left. They then brought in like 15 new players and everyone expected that season to be a transition season,” Korteweg added.

But it was anything but with the arrivals of David Hancko, Quinten Timber and Santiago Gimenez having a near-instantaneous effect. Feyenoord thrashed Vitesse 5-2 on the opening day and this set the tone for one of the best seasons of the club’s modern era, with Slot’s charges romping to the league title, after which he attracted strong interest from Premier League sides.

Now the Premier League is not the Eredivisie. I think it’s getting harder and harder to distinguish oneself in the EPL because the quality across the League is growing. (To some extent, this is one reason why a water-treading Man U only made the 40 points traditionally necessary to avoid relegation on the last day of the season - and Tottenham never did - yet both clubs were Europa League finalists.) Under these circumstances, it doesn’t feel like we should be changing a winning formula too much.

And yet, while too much change is risky, I think the Club’s hierarchy are also operating under the following circumstances:

  1. Having to plan for a post-Salah, post-van-Dijk and yes, post-TAA Liverpool. Klopp’s Liverpool is practically spent - that cycle is over and it costs clubs dearly when they fail to deal with these realities, as happened towards the end of Klopp’s tenure when we suddenly discovered that we had to overhaul the midfield (something we did very effectively). I don’t think the Club will allow crisis-level overhauls like the one that happened then and like the one that’s happening now to happen again.
  2. Replacing Salah, in particular, is difficult. Salah is an outlier: the EPL has never seen a winger with his kind of output. Among the top 10 EPL goal-scorers of all time, there are only two non-strikers. One is Frank Lampard; the other is Mo Salah. Replacing Salah, therefore - which the Club has bought itself the time to do with his contract extension - may mean moving away from having most of the attacking output coming from the right wing towards a more traditional CAM-Central Striker + Wingers approach, which may be more replicable in the long term.
  3. Other clubs are not standing still. Arsenal are perhaps one Isak-level signing away from winning the League. While it boggles the mind that they allowed themselves to arrive at a Champions League semi with a midfielder leading their strike force, the other side of that coin is that that Arsenal side had the quality to qualify for that semi without a recognised striker. Arsenal are definitely signing a striker this summer, and it will not be so easy to beat them to the title next season. Man City have also signed 7 or so first teamers this calendar year, and Rodri will be back. We can’t stand still.
  4. I think Number 21 and Number 7 are high on the list of goals for the Club, particularly for Slot. For Salah and van Dijk this may be their last chance at another Champions League. I think this greatly motivates Salah in particular; his numbers seemed to go down after Liverpool exited the Champions League at the hands of PSG.

There is therefore no better time to make these changes than now. Liverpool are Premier League champions so we have a significant “pull”; the financial capacity to build for the long term is there; and we have a Head Coach who has demonstrated a capacity to deal with major changes to the first XI.

I hope we do it, and that we do it right.

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I’m really alright for it being a transition season.

We’ll still win if all goes right.

But this is Slot Mk1.

Also this thread might be more suited to the main forum.

Moved.

Yes this season really is slot mk1

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I expect Diaz will get a new contract since the Barca news has died down.

Gomez is someone who we should shift. Even if not in this season , the next one. I like him a lot. Very very humble guy but unfortunately injuries did him in.

6? You listed 5. Or are you counting Frimpong for TAA as 2.

There is a lot more nuance to the moves. Some are necessary because of people leaving. Some are about adding strength, others depth and some better planning for the future.

It’s natural change that maybe would have happened better across a couple of windows. But it didn’t for a number if reasons. I don’t see any of these being unnecessary though.

It also looks like we are getting stuff done early with good planning.

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I’m alright with it. The spine of leaders is still there in Alisson, Virg, Robbo (don’t see him going), and Mo. Could probably add Macca to the list now too.

Despite winning the league some change was inevitable. It was obvious Slot didn’t have full faith in some of the lads and some players were getting fatigued towards the end of the season whilst others had barely played.

We had to bring in a fullback at each side. We won the league practically without a centre forward. And Centre back was probably on the shopping list with us being open to let either Quansah or Gomez move on.

Don’t see many other moves being sanctioned beyond those we know not to really have contributed what they should. Elliott, Morton, Chiesa, Kostas, Nunez just aren’t going to play that much if they stayed anyway.

Last time we were at our peak we held onto too many players too long. Pleased to see us taking advantage of our pull this time around to build the next great squad.

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I think he leaves.

It’s always better to build from a position of strength. Klopp’s great strength and his weakness has been his loyalty to players.

There are no rules.

The situation of the team/squad and winning a title after 5 years is not perfectly aligned.

You have to separate the two, recognize the good and vital elements you want to keep and also the business that had to be done regardless how we finished our season.

Then also, opportunities of course.

I don’t think we are doing too much, even if the summer is still long and unexpected things can happen.

Not all of these players will go straight in the first XI.

I was proud how we behaved last summer, although we failed to bring Zubimendi. But we didn’t panic and that was a very good team/squad.

Now we are league champions, Slot knows much more what we need and our dexters above him are also finally settled in their roles and it seems like they prepared well this summer.

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Slot worked with 25 new players last season and looked pretty well. :sneezing_face:

Thought it looked like Atletico had shifted focus to Digne.

I don’t see us putting Robbo on the chopping block. If something like the Atletico move peaked his interest I reckon we don’t stand in his way but we’re not trying to move him on.

Kostas is making noise about his future too. Highly doubt we let both go but likely we’re shopping for another LB next summer.

But 24 of those players had worked together before.

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It is a lot of change. Ideally, we would want to see one or two first team changes so that the team changes organically. The pandemic and the stadium upgrades have meant money for upgrades has been tight, so we are now in catchup territory.

So far, the new signings have been quality, but it will take a while for the new team to settle. On the plus side, we have a full pre-season with no players on international duty (Quansah and Elliott aside).

My concern is that there are some who think we are going to win every game 10:0. I’m expecting, or at least I am not concerned about, a slow start. I just hope everyone knows that there is a big difference between real players and what EA Sports offers up.

Then again, I didn’t expect us to win the league last year. Does this make it Slot’s first big test?

I think it’s when people start discussing the likes of Gakpo to sell, yes every player has a price but he is happy, he plays a lot and the manager likes him.

No point flogging players like that when you still have 4-5 who are surplus to requirements

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The Summer of Barnes and Beardsley comes to mind. Houghton and Aldo were also relatively new, so a massive change was implemented very quickly. And it worked. Mainly because the players signed were high quality acquisitions.
That version of Liverpool was a joy to watch and maybe this summer sees a reinvention and a new and better version. I’m confident that Slot knows what he wants, and that he is expanding on a vision of his Liverpool.

Maybe success last season has us on tenterhooks? Why break a winning formula etc?
If we finished second or third in the PL we would accept this change as a requirement to progress. Now its more about keeping ahead of the rest.