When does a great summer become too much change?

Right, but this was a relatively extended period not a single point of time. That position I referenced was typically paired with a preference for keeping Diaz and stopping fucking about over the CB we clearly felt we wanted.

I get we can walk and chew gum at the same time but there are still priorities signaled in the way we went about things, and a of the grumblings about the Isak interest was that it was not the right priority for us with that much money at stake.

All the players brought in looked quality. Their stats suggest they are quality, the irony that the one with the biggest question mark has so far been the one who has done well.

It’s where the settled players need to lead and beyond Dom and Alisson they really haven’t. I’d have brought Kerkez in gradually and maybe that’s been an error on Slot’s part but a lot of senior players have been extremely poor for a number of reasons and it goes beyond systems some have simply just been poor. And if Dom can play well you have to question that.

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I always think when transfers go quiet, then it’s pretty much done. And I suspect that was the case with Guehi - at least according to the player, Liverpool and Steve Parish.

The only reason we didn’t get him is because at the eleventh hour, Glasner threw his Teddy out.

The mistake we made was not waiting for him, or panicking into paying more. We shouldn’t have shown as much trust towards Palace, and we probably should have set a deadline, maybe deadline day minus one week?

On Isak, I totally understand that people were uncomfortable with his antics, but since we’re talking about this in the context of Guehi, which one of them got their move in the end? The twat or the model pro?

I think Isak was a priority, in so much as ‘Nunez has failed, we need a goalscorer - how about we just pay top dollar to get the best one we can?’ It was the kind of move that I’ve been waiting 30 years for Liverpool to make.

Ekitike was also needed, because we lost Jota.

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You are putting forward your perspective on how things played out and why. Some I agree with but some I don’t. However, the question was where there people who were genuinely uncomfortable with the idea of continuing to pursue Isak and the reality is there were. From my recollection, even ignoring the going on strike thing, there was some combination of 1) the price, 2) the perceived history of injury…and at that price, 3) all the other money we had already spent on forwards, 4) the fact it it seemed to be tied to allowing Diaz to leave with people preferring to keep Lucho as a flex option for another year, and 5) There were other priorities in the team we needed to close, primarily CB or in some cases additional CM/DM.

Those voices were out there. I think in some cases some were shouted down in some quite unfair ways (“people arent happy unless they’re complaining”, “oh we complain for years about not spending money and now we do you’re getting critical”)

Interestingly I dont even know anymore where I was on this or how my attitude changed. I definitely argued multiple times that he was in fact the quality that would justify his signature being that highly rated. I am pretty sure I was mostly on the side of unease of it being us (see reasons above, although I did downplay the fitness aspect) and concern over the number of changes being made, but I actively tried to tone down those concerns because I felt these people deserved my trust that they’d figure it out, and there bugger all I can do about it by by worrying.

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The thing that really pissed me off with the Guehi deal is the way Arsenal handled the Eze deal. There was a chance he could go to Spurs they came in put down what was needed and got it done no waiting for a replacement. Irrespective of what you believe regarding how it was handled we waited for 6 weeks for a player we clearly wanted. If it really was over the 5m we fumbled it badly.

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My perspective on Isak changed once we got Ekitike in, but I do realise Isak is a top talent.

I think you may need to illustrate the differences for him :joy:

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Think hobbit, shire, Baggins (ideally in a screechy black rider voice)

I don’t know if there’s anything we could have done to get Guehi. Maybe we offer way more than our valuation. And then Glasner throws a fit and Parish dithers and we’re in the same position at the end of the window, anyway.

Our only real alternative was…to seek an alternative at CB. Which we might have to do, anyway, if Guehi decides to held elsewhere. But that has never really been our MO. We find our target and we pursue it doggedly until we’re told we’re out of it. That approach has served us well over the years, preventing us from paying big sums for players we don’t rate. But the risk of that approach is what we’re dealing with presently.

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I wasn’t necessarily against replacing Nunez with a better striker, although he wasn’t as bad as has been said in here, and the timing, with all the other multiple changes, was bad imo (my recurring argument all over the summer, about excessive dismantling of our squad of champions, and the right mentality which goes with it).

But I was against that ridiculous Isak saga throughout the summer, almost right from the off. Too expensive, sketchy injury record, and bad general circumstances around that move, with Newcastle not wanting to let go and him going on strike. Also, I didn’t see enough in his career to justify such a monster fee. You can look up my posting history if you have enough time on your hands. :wink:

Now that he’s here, I hope of course that he will prove me wrong, stay fit and break all goalscoring records.

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I initially really liked how we prepared (Mamardashvili) and opened this summer window (Wirtz), but then I had some immediate (Frimpong, Kerkez) and more questions are the summer went on (getting both Ekitike and Isak, while also keeping Salah, not getting that CB in).

And by the way, I’m fully aware that sometimes in such a hectic transfer window, shit happens at times and you can’t get it all done. I mean, if we had brought in a CB, then we might have said “yeah, but we also needed another midfielder”. There doesn’t have to be one guilty party for it. It’s football and even in life I’m totally fine with accidents. I don’t need some great explanations, conspiracies and finding who is guilty all the time.

Then, you have multiple factors that decide whether you have a good pre-season, regardless of transfer activity. That is impossible to tell from the outside without certain data, but some issues in multiple phases of play were evident already in friendlies.

From all the talk from journalists about Ekitike being this player who can easily play off the left to accommodate Isak up top - we haven’t seen any of that. That was really weird to read. It’s like journalists already tried to calm down and explain the dynamic in advance by relying on… Ekitike playing on the left 4-5 times in his career. And by Ekitike’s style and how he opened his Liverpool career, for me it would be a waste to have him anywhere but central.

I sense there could be a bit of an “Alvarez” situation happening somewhere down the line, but question is with whom out of the two. I’m pretty sure the plan initially was Isak first choice and Jota staying as backup striker.

I don’t subscribe to the Galactico comparisons, but there’s no hiding from the fact that this team right now is in a serious lack of balance. It is a little bit reminiscent when Real tried to build that team with: Modric, Kroos, Bale, James, Ronaldo and Benzema. We looked pretty creative and attack heavy at the start, results were great and quite better than performances by large, but sometimes after a few games teams start scanning you and hurting you more. Right now, opponents are braver against us.

It’s a very good roster (though not the best balanced in the league), but not a very good team yet.

There was zero point, rhyme or reason in keeping Darwin. His head had dropped and he needed a new environment whether Isak was the right decision after signing Elitike mind is questionable.

Losing all of pre season mind means we won’t know for at least a year if he will come good. Though he will feature on many talking heads flops list.

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Football transfers are a precarious business, with so many moving parts to get it over the line.

We did really well, with a big summer. The one blot was not closing out the Guehi deal, but that miss was in the context of lots of great business being completed, and of course, Guehi himself thought he was going to Liverpool right up until the last second when Palace pulled the plug. It happens. Not everything is completely in our own hands.

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Roster.
Everything was going great until you said roster.
Say SQUAD.
There you go…

Messing aside, I agree with the thrust of your post.
Roster though?!

Maybe we didn’t expect Ekitike to hit the ground running so soon as well. This all would have been a good dilemma to have if Guehi would have been done and we didn’t have to force so many changes through injuries.

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What does Nunez matter to that?

Being a Yank we are very apt to fall into this trap. :sweat_smile: To remember how bleak it was in the late 2000s/early 2010s, I was rereading Brian Reade’s Epic Swindle about Hicks and Gillett, where Gillett told Rafa “we’ll see what we get in the draft” when quizzed on transfers. :skull_and_crossbones:

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Why do Liverpool keep losing games?

It’s a question we are all asking…we all sit watching either in the ground or at home…we all have our answers…but we still don’t know why…but we all want it to change…

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Yes, its a complex of issues. I thought the video gave some good tactical analysis. But the root of the problem is perhaps less tangible. In short, my feeling is we’re only just now beginning the adjustment to Klopp leaving.