Whipping Boys or Poor Players?

There is a bit of discussion surrounding Cody Gakpo, as in whether or not he deserves the criticism he received last season.
Did he become the default whipping boy whilst other under performing players escaped such a pile on? Some of the criticism was directed because of his nationality, as in Slot being unwilling to bench a fellow Dutch man. That piece, at least, was incorrect.

The truth is, Cody underperformed in a piss poor season. At times he simply looked as if he wasn’t good enough. People who wanted Darwin Nunez sold the season before started making comparisons, as in Darwin would offer more to the team. He is the latest player to polarise views amongst supporters.
Origi, Jones, Shelvey, Nunez, even Trent in recent years have raised hackles when discussing their worth to the team. And Mo Salah, a club legend polarised views at times last season. No one escapes.

@Mascot raised the ghost of Lucas in another thread, prompting this discussion.

Lucas was subject of some heated debate on the TIA forum. His supporters, Grk Stav, Budski, Cardiffpete et al waxed lyrical about his value to the team whilst his detractors, myself included saw him as a symptom of a club accepting mediocrity. He wasn’t good enough, in my humble opinion. Park in the Jason McAteer bay of really nice lads who would die for the team, but really not good enough to play in a team challenging for honours.

As supporters, are we allowed to critique performance? Absolutely.

Are we guilty of biases against particular players? Absolutely. In this instance we might all agree that Poulsen, Konchesky, Voronin and a few more weren’t Liverpool quality players.

In light of Mane, Firmino, Salah, Suarez, Gerrard et al, is Gakpo or Nunez that sort of quality? The answer is no. But both of those lads contributed to Title No 20. So, like Arne Slot they are entitled to our respect.

Is Gakpo deserving of being the new whipping boy?
Or are we just frustrated and taking our dissapointment out on an easy target?

1 Like

Gakpo has a bad season but so did most of our squad. He has been decent for us before and has the potential to be decent for us again. Really it feels like he got extra stick beyond the rest of the squad because a lot of people wanted Ngumoha to play instead of him.

4 Likes

I’ve never felt like Gakpo is good enough to be a first XI player for us, so wouldn’t say I treat him like a whipping boy.

He’s a decent squad player, nothing more. It wasn’t really a major issue while we had Diaz ahead of him, but pushing him into being first-choice last season really exposed his limitations.

I wouldn’t necessarily look to sell him as we’re thin at the moment and he can cover a few roles, but bringing in someone to play ahead of him in LW definitely has to be one of our priorities.

6 Likes

mascot, bless him, loves a crusade, and doesnt really care about brandishing anyone in his way as unreasonable.

happened with Slot, happening with Gakpo, and his opinion on what happened regarding lucas is revisionism, Lucas wasnt blamed for all our woes… but he was debated beyond reason.

i felt sorry more than anything for Gakpo this season, the guy had no where to hide, to the point that Slot was doing him no favours by playing him so consistently… i said it a while back, but i drew lines to Heskey and Houllier… theres a point where a good manager just takes the player out of the firing line.

that said, most of the stuff ive seen is either a good assessment of his performance, or a bit toungue in cheek, he doesnt need the crusade Mascot thinks he needs. he’ll get a clean slate, as would Slot have gotten had he kept going…

its all a bit of drama for dramas sake to be honest

1 Like

We bought Cody during Jürgen’s time and I do t think he was ever meant to be more than a squad player. Certainly not a Salah-type every match starter. But because of our somewhat misguided transfer dealings that’s where he ended up.
His previous seasons were decently productive. This past season has not been. And because we see him (and Macca) front and centre a lot more, they’ve both copped a lot of flack. Macca for midfield defensive woes. Cody for attacking bluntness, lack of cohesion with his teammates, and general lack of movement.
I think most of that is tactics and training gaps.
We are short enough manpower-wise as it is. He has shown he can score goals. He should definitely get a chance to redeem himself.

2 Likes

I don’t like our players being slagged for their skill levels as long as they are putting the effort in and doing their best.
If they’re not trying it’s fair enough to criticise. I don’t think there was a lack of effort from Gakpo, and I don’t think he’s as bad as people are making out. His main problem is one-footedness, which makes him predictable to defend against, but he wasn’t even 5% of our problems last season.

4 Likes

Regarding Gakpo: the blame is on the club who sold Diaz without replacing him, and on Slot who, for whatever reason, saw something in him which isn’t there.

The truth is that he’s a decent squad player, who can fulfil a job in a rotational role, but he’s not perennial starting material for us. As the opening poster said, think Bobby, Mané, Salah: that’s perennial starting material for us. Wirtz and Isak can be expected to take over the mantle within a well-functioning team. Cody? Not a chance.

The problem this past season has been his elevated status. While he played a rotational role in our title-winning season, he started almost every game this time around, and that was doing him a disservice. Also, putting him on 200k a week last summer was absolutely nuts and created an imbalance within the wage structure, because of the chasm between his qualities and his financial rewards.

So, the discussions around him are at the same time unfair (Cody is a valuable player who can help us when he is in form), and at the same time totally fair, given his new, overblown status at the club. Once again, I blame Slot for that, and also the club hierarchy.

They have created a serious problem which is now Iraola’s to resolve. At this point, I really don’t know how he’ll do that.

Edit:

Regarding the general discussion topic, I’m against slagging off players. I was against slagging off Lucas, Nunez or even players like Voronin, Carroll, Degen etc. who clearly weren’t good enough for LFC. They are human beings and in most cases, try to do the best they can.

At the same time, it should be allowed to point out their deficiencies. The problem is always when posters exaggerate their views on a player and don’t allow for nuance in their views, or the views of others. Was Lucas a world-class player? No. Was he a dedicated, loyal, useful player who always gave his best for the club, and a lovely character too? Yes.

4 Likes

I think most of our players were underperforming last season. If a particular player is having a torrid time on the pitch, then it’s up to the coach to do something about it. I don’t like to see personal abuse aimed at individuals who are struggling.

I think we had similar things with Nunez the season before, and I felt this was causing him problems off the pitch as well.

3 Likes

I’d wager that approximately none of our players ever read this forum.
Nothing wrong with forum users criticising poor play, loss of form, lack of fight, forums are about differing opinions.
And as long as comments don’t resort to personal insults there shouldn’t be a requirement for other forum users to get all precious and offended on said players behalf.

7 Likes

I think he´s very average, not good enough and I´d get rid, but I think plenty of our team isn´t that good.

1 Like

What is your definition of “not good enough”?

Not good enough to start regularly? Agreed
Not good enough to be part of a rotation? Firmly disagree

Look at his numbers


That first season was just half a season as we got him in January. He has been plenty productive and everyone was cack last season so we can’t judge him in that.
We absolutely need players who won’t kick up a fuss over being in a rotation.

4 Likes

Argh, this will be the thread where I dig a hole for myself. I am super critical of players but rarely share my full frustration (see other thread on not getting as excited at Iraola’s appointment as others).

Deep breath, here we go.

Lucas was a frustration but Kuyt used to drive me up the wall. And that was purely down to his ball control. It was awful for a player at this level. Some of his positioning was questionable too in my mind, but he ran and ran and ran, stabilised that right side and got some goals.

Coutinho was another at times. And to also Mo. Poor touches, sloppy passes, poor decisions used to raise the blood pressure a bit (quietly) but I was put back in my box on more than one occasion.

This season, I’ve been critical of Dom. I understand that without his goals year we would be no where near top 5 but I always saw him in places he had no right to be in, and it cost us.

I guess I have a particular and possibly narrow view of what a top class player should perform like and when I see someone outside that it frustrates me.

I shall stop digging now. I could not be a football manager.

2 Likes

The problem is, he really wasn’t really part of rotation last season. So, his performance level is measured like any other regular starters. And, that’s not good enough.
That said, MacAllister and Konate were both below average as well, and neither shipped the same amount of stick as Cody

4 Likes

Wow.
I’d hate to read your critique on the rest of the sorry bunch

Slot did him absolute no favours playing him as much as he did, but I don’t share the view he’s been used as a whipping boy and I also don’t believe he’s a poor player either…he does a lot of the basics quite well, for me he’s just awful to watch and when he can’t post the above average numbers to negate his style (like the season just gone) then he’s going to get called out…it was no different with Mo and it’s been no different with other underperformers like Grav, Mac or Ibou either, Trent or Robbo last season. Even legends and cult heros like Hendo and Kuyt. They all rightfully took the brunt of the blame. Slot also took a lot of heavy artillery to the point where the fans effectively drove him out the club, NO ONE IS SAFE!!!

1 Like

Are you seated?

it's all going according to plan...

3 Likes

Basically most of the players get a pass this season from me. I think they were all victims of a manager not playing to their strengths or worse exposing their weaknesses.

Players can look world class in the right system (TAA, Coutinho) but don’t play to their strengths they look average.

I don’t think most of the forum actually has a problem with the players. Morse so a frustration players not being picked on form.

3 Likes

One of the issues with Cody for me is that he’s just not that good played off the left. Makes more sense centrally and could see a place for him as backup to Isak; or were we playing 4-3-1-2, as backup to Hugo and Alex up top.

Its Gapkos effort that bugs me, or lack of it.

Sometimes i get the impression that hes just not that interested.

If he ran about more, put a challenge more often he might get a better response from the fans

1 Like

This also bugged most of Anfield as well from what I could see