I’m steering well clear of this thread other than to offer the following thoughts which I’ve put forth a few times
I’d grab Suarez in a heartbeat on a Bosman. 6 month boost to bring in a winning attitude and see if he can help unlock that low block we are struggling against. it’s been 3 seasons and our attack is getting more predictable every season. I cannot fathom that the best idea our coaching staff could come up with, was to let an already-defensively-deficient TAA start wandering freely in the midfield and front line.
It compromises the entire structure defensively and pull everyone else out of position if they don’t have the tactical nous to drop into the space vacated (Henderson/Elliot position)
Breaking the structure for Salah was a mistake. Whilst Diaz has done incredibly well in replacing Mane, Salah hasn’t performed consistently since AFCON and has completely lost his ability to beat a player in a 1v1. Should have let him see out his tenure at RW and brought in someone to replace.
Nunez could be a good signing but his attitude on the pitch is something I’m used to seeing in a Manc or Chelsea jersey. 3-match red card already, and the sneers of disgust I see from him on the pitch does my head in when he doesn’t like a decision.
Defensively this 4-2-3-1 works better, there is a gap between CM and FW but with the fullbacks that should be breached especially if your attacking Mid comes back into the middle at times.
It requires a fluidity that was obvious tonight, I don’t think teams without our fullbacks would be as beneficial with it. But I do think it opens the options for a fair few of them.
The 4231 looks like it will get the best out of this team, I thought Hendo and Thiago worked really well at covering for the fullbacks and supporting the attack, they continually swapped sides which caused Rangers no end of issues, which combined with Jota dropping deeper meant there was spaces all over. It shifted to a 442 with Salah and Jota taking it in turns to work with Nunez who was relentless and all over the front line.
We also varied our game with us hitting some brilliant first time long balls which caused lots of problems, always helped with someone like Nunez who fought for everything up there.
Trent was clearly told to stay deeper and wider, but when he did attack and get forward Hendo dropped and covered him every single time - A totally thankless task but utterly important… It was disapointing that when Fabinho came on he stayed far too central and for some reason Elliot then got blamed for the right sided problem when it’s Fabinho not covering for Trent etc.
It also removes our big problem in having a fit midfield, I hope we continue using it v’s Arsenal. You can see how Carvalho and Bobby can easily slot in as the “no.10” which for us is like a second striker.
At times last season our fullbacks played so high our formation looked like a backline 2-1 formation with the holding midfielder dropping in with the 2 Cb’s. With Roberson out and potential injury to TAA, what are peoples thoughts to a back 3? With the central of the 3 stepping into Midfield when needed. It actually may also reduce the issue we seem to be having of teams playing balls between the FB/CB.
If we were to try and implement this I would look at Matip being the CB stepping into Midfield, with Thiago/Fabinho central and Jota wide left and Henderson wide right. Leaving Bobby, Darwin and Salah playing up top.
To be clear I am not suggesting we implement this, more to see what other peoples views are regarding thus.
Trent comes central in possession - centre backs shuffle to the right, Robertson tucks in as a LCB. Jones and Henderson split into wider midfield roles. Salah and Diaz attack the penalty area while Gakpo drops in to link the play.
Robertson goes down the left flank. This is a trigger for Fabinho to drop deeper. van Dijk and Konate split. Midfielders don’t go quite as wide - wide attackers still attack the penalty area.
I’m not sure we are executing this perfectly yet, and out defensive fragility suggests we aren’t but I think this is our formation now and I see no reason why it wouldn’t be next season. I can also see that it’s a much more complicated system which no doubt will need a pre-season to really get it working perfectly.
Great stuff, it’s clearly helping us but as you say there is still little holes to exploit. Feels a bit like the season where we moved from gengenpressing to the overlapping fullbacks and very very high line, we kept getting done on the counter but the next season we went on to win the league.
It’s great Jones is fit, Trent is clearly important but I think Jones has been just as so during this resurgence. His ability to retain possession, press, win duels etc. Has been massively missing from the midfield.
I think a left center back is key, Robbo and Kostas don’t like using their right foot which isn’t ideal, I can see that position being a target for the summer, that will add even more improvement on the ball and importantly off the ball, including set pieces.
It’s also clear we need a midfielder on the right with a huge engine, love him but Hendo doesn’t have the legs to get up and down.
Add a no.6 who again doesn’t wear diving boots and it will all click and the holes will get smaller.
Trent moving to a central position is more due to the difficulty in him tracking back and supporting the defense when we are caught off the ball this season
If we get a faster right back the next season, it would make better sense to start Trent as a right sided midfielder and have the quicker wingback get in behind the opponent wingbacks to give Trent more options to target while attacking while not sacrificing the defensive backline.
For this to work , i think we would need two hardworking midfielders who can win the ball as well as make those runs forward (atleast one of the two should). Trent would basically be used for his passing ability to switch the play, target the forward line etc etc (which is one of his strengths anyway).
I’ll try and see if I can make a drawing of those… One defending , one with the ball
The beauty of football is that every move you make to plug a gap leaves a gap somewhere else. Tactics and shape are largely an exercise in picking the areas you prefer them to try to hurt you.
An under referenced part of this move with Trent (something that has been bubbling for well over year, but is now more formalized) is that it gives us an extra body in midfield when we lose the ball. That comes at the expense of there being more room down the outside of the CBs. What we are gambling on is that the increased pressure we can put on the ball in midfield means they have to spring that out ball quickly…before the forward has much time to position himself or time his run, and without the man on the ball having time to size things up and measure his pass. We then back our CBs to win those battles often enough to make the risk worth it. That has always been a concession we’ve made as a high pressing team and I think that even now, this many years in, we have lots of fans who treat teams taking the attacking avenue we want them to take as something that feels dangerous. When it gets exposed it looks pathetic, but the reality is the vast majority of times its tried we eat it up.
I don’t agree his move central is due to problems he is having defensively, I think it’s because he’s one of the most devastating attacking options we have and he has simply matured beyond the point where his only function is to get to into a crossing position (also our midfield has been so poor that he hasn’t been able to get forward much). He’s a glorious footballer and I thought he was actually brilliant against Fulham despite not getting an assist for the first time in six games.
However I think why we like him coming in from the right is that it’s extremely hard for the opposition to pick up. He usually has oodles of time and space because it is an unusual movement - and unlike the way Guardiola does it with Stones moving centrally, Trent is actually moving central to affect the attacking side of the ball and create new opportunities.
The league will have to respond in someway, and you may get an unusual looking situation in future of a player man marking a right back all the way across the pitch. Whatever they do though they so far haven’t come up with an answer.
Defensively I think we need a quicker DM, both mentally and physically, who sees the triggers earlier and responds to either support Trent in the middle of the pitch or drop in on the CBs. In my opinion I think Fabinho just reacts too slowly. I do think a pre-season of working on this will make it function a lot better and hopefully not leave quite so many holes, because having Alexander-Arnold able to play with time and space in the middle of midfield is really worth sacrificing a hell of a lot for.
A Very simplistic board of the options Trent has if he’s starting as a central midfielder. This is in the attacking play where he can target either the wings or make better passes to the forwards.
Either way, This requires a very ball aware midfielders to be around Trent both as a support as well as to make those offensive runs.
Bajcetic at the base and MacAlister and Jones ahead looks very tasty (with Elliott and Carvalho potentially able to grow into one of those more advanced roles)
Nothing against Bajcetic and Jones (or with Elliot / Carvalho) , but at this time we need more battle ready players. Two to three midfield signings (preferably three) with Hendo, Fabinho still around.
Not to mention the Right Back position which we might well need.
And if Trent does need to come slightly further up in range for his long shots , there needs to be two midfielders behind him in order to account for defensive shape etc as well…
Trent is still RB in this formation. Putting Trent “in midfield” and picking an orthodox RB to “replace” him gives away a significant part of the benefit this shape is providing.
I think we are in a bit of a weird position where we have players out performing their ‘senior’ competition but also don’t seem quite ready full time either. Bajcetic has done basically everything asked of him and performed great but I only want him in a backup role next season. Realistically it’s going to be Fabinho still but in an ideal world we get a really good DM in there and let Bajcetic play second fiddle behind him.
Jones I think over the last six games has really proven why he deserves the opportunity to be a regular starter. He’s been excellent consistently (sure I’m biased as I’ve made my feeling on him clear before, but still its true). He needs a similar standard of contest though, and hes had his inuries, currently thats Thiago but he increasingly looks like he doesn’t have a role with us anymore.
For midfield I’m hoping for a good LCM and a starting calibre DM. I expect a good LCM and RCM. We live in hope.
This is somewhat similar albeit the reverse to the formation that sheffield united used a couple of seasons ago with Wilder. Their CB’s going wider to be the playmakers and the midfielders hold their positions defensively. (If i’m getting it right). Will only work if there’s a defensive midfielder who’s willing to drop back to RB when Trent makes his transition to be a midfielder. Who do we have in our midfield lineup who can perform the RB role when Trent makes his transition play ?
I do agree that the transition trent makes to a midfield position from a RB gives him more space and time to pick and choose his next steps. But there’s no attacking wingback option at the right hand side and we potentially have Salah double marked unless Elliot can do the job transitioning from a midfield to a wingback. But again , Elliot lacks the pace to make those runs.
It’s easier to get Trent playing a RCM with less transitions than making it complicated (and have more chances for error when a midfielder is a bit late etc etc in transitioning to the wingback role
Again the current issue right now with Trent transitioning from a RB to a RCM. Who’s there to relieve the pressure off of Salah when he’s double marked ? Liverpool generally thrive on overloading flanks while attacking , this would literally mean Salah is short done by unless the #8 in the pic is pushing to the right wing to provide support. I did see Elliot try and do that a bit , maybe that’s the long term thinking going forward for next season.
