I think there is crossed wires here in what we’re trying to say.
My point is that we want Trent to be in midfield when we lose the ball. Not because he’s Trent, but because it gives an extra body there to help us win the ball back better. Readjusting other players’ position to fill in for a missing FB defeats the point of that switch.
Someone needs to handle the right flank if we lose the ball till trent comes back to shape. Who does that ? It has to be one of the existing midfielders coming into slot there.
I see a lot of managers focusing on the right side with a quick winger on the side to catch our defenders out. If this has to be a viable tactic , It should involve Trent in a more permanent midfield role imo.
It’s Konate. We are making the conscious decision to flood the midfield at the expense of leaving the defense 1 man short on the first phase after losing the ball. Its a trade off we have decided we want to make. But that is only for the first phase. What you will see is that if we dont win it back quickly is Trent himself getting back into an orthodox RB position for the next defensive phase.
Looking at Fulham’s play just before the final whistle where they nearly scored a goal , That’s exactly going to be happening more and more. I’m not sure it’s a viable option. I agree with Trent playing a more central role. But what I fail to see is why the trade off is needed. It destabilizes the entire defensive line and also limits the left backs from making those runs forward as well.
Have you seen how much better we’ve wont he ball back and looked more like our proper selves the past few games?
Effective pressing cannot ever be done by keeping an orthdox shape. It always requires a total football like adjustment in the position of various defensive players to close off the passing angles. Even with Trent as an orthodox RB of years past we typically end up with 3 at the back in the first phase because of how high we typically need the FB to push up on the side where the ball is. This is just a different starting shape to get us to the same end point.
Everything in football is a trade off.
refer to Perisic setup to Kane on Spurs goal on the weekend. perfect example.
With the opposition playing 433 I think this is generally how our system would work in possession - forcing their midfield to be less compact by the spacing of Jones and Henderson - which has essentially created a flat 4 man midfield but forces them away from Trent and Fabinho. I definitely agree that the difficulty is the 3vs3 situation we tend to create with our defenders.
This is in danger of looking too complex so he’s a cleaned up version of the counter attack.
In this example Trent concedes possession to the opposition midfielder, triggering a press by Jones and Gakpo while Fabinho moves to intercept a passing lane to the other midfielder. However you can see the issue defensively as Trent tries to get back and the wingers pin themselves to the touchline, there are some simple passes open if the midfielders break our press. We are taking a big risk that the press will win the ball back more often than not and banking on our CBs winning individual battles.
It’s very risky but we are not risk adverse under Klopp and probably never will be. No doubt it is going to leave holes though and we will rely on the individual quality of our players to make up for that.
Yes and the stats (and eye test) back this up, Trent’s possession regains are hitting double figures.
One of our biggest weaknesses was the loss of possession, turning to a quick fast ball through the midfield. As you say we now basically have a double pivot so that ball is much easier to stop.
I think when we get a left centre back we’ll be much more secure it’s basically a back three with double pivot ahead, compared to our old 3 man diamond.
I think that chance is actually close to what we ‘want’. I’ve just watched it back and this is how the move developed…
We are overloaded on the left. 4 (Trent) goes with the runner (white 5) while Fabinho comes over to the ball. Decordova-Reid has moved into a good position but Trent cut out the passing lane as he closed out to the winger.
Trent isn’t able to stop the cross and Konate is out of position (he won the header that gave the ball to White 4 in the last image). Van Dijk responds by coming across against White 3 - who eventually gets the shot off.
Van Dijk sticks tight as the ball arrives and does very well. He forces a first time shot and takes BDR off balance. Not entirely sure but he may have actually got a foot on the ball as well. After the shot he celebrates his own effort because he knows he did well. I think this is an example of us trusting our defenders to win individual battles. Interestingly the opportunity also came around while Trent was in at RB for the whole time.
Yes I found the tactics board creator and love it, so what? 
I think our general game in itself is pretty risky which I would not mind. Creating an added layer of risk however is something that can backfire.
This is the piece fans need to come to terms with. Yes, sometimes it does get exposed. But most of the time these balls into the wide open channels is the concession we make for being able better able to win the ball back high up the pitch and make their balls into the channels mostly hopeful punts we’re in control of. Konate being forced to sprint down the line and put a ball out for a throw is not us getting stretched, but what we expect of how most teams will respond to our set up.
Also we aren’t city where we do cynical fouls to break up the play and concede a cheap free kick with absolutely no yellow cards given.
As requested, I’m reviving this thread to post the Adam Clearly analysis video posted earlier
This is IMO a really good piece. It illustrates how effective pressing isnt just running around. It is often about using smart coordinated positioning to force them to play in the direction we want them to until they just give it back to us as much as it is about putting in tackles and getting stuck in. It also shows that it can be difficult to spot when it breaks down
Henderson was one of the worst tacklers but had brilliant positioning and was great at forcing players into ‘traps’ he, Gini and Milly were very good at it, then you add in Bobby and Sadio, simply WOW.
This season I am a little lost at our shape defensibvely and what we are trying to do, it seems we are betwixt & between and it seems the players are confused or not drilled well enough. I really would like for us to get a coherent pressing style back, the times when we do we look a far better team.
At least this season when we press the opposition goalie we go it correctly. It’s the others who are indecisive. Those cutting out the pass or pressing the recieving players.
The problem is we don’t do it so much as before anyway.
Salah has never done any of this well anyway.
Our best pressers of the goalie were Darvin and Jota (however they rarely played due to being non starters or injured).
One thing we have never done is protect our central defenders by having a midfielder ‘take out’ or delay the main striker. I saw one Shitty match were a team deliberately had a midfielder on Haaland, all he did was block him in some way every time the ball was played to him. It was enough to give the central defender an extra half yard and win the ball. We criticise Konaté a lot however I feel it’s unjust as he’s not getting any help, even VVD on cover isn’t present enough ( particularly when the opposition has 2 or more attackers present). It’s a bit like Trent and the criticisms he got however he had a thankless task and we are seeing that now with all our right backs being written off. The same will happen with anyone who steps into Konate’s shoes. Many are calling for that CP captain yet he has never gone what Konaté does he’s in a very different tactical system.
Teams seem to be able to play through the 1st press by having either a fullback or forward drop into midfield and we struggle to adapt until halftime when Arne has to point it out.
My biggest criticism of Ibou, is when he tries to get physical with the opposition, he loses out by getting rolled or challenging poorly, he us far better when he focuses on winning the ball rather than the grappling
That’s fair enough however I’m sure that’s what he is being asked to do due to VVD’s role.
The problem for Konaté with this rôle is he hasn’t the agility for it and gets turned and out manoeuvred by more agile and pitch wise attackers.
Also whilst this is going on if the opposition has someone ruining at/past VVD VVD backs off to keep his covering role. The gap between them becomes too great and noone from midfield comes in to alleviate the situation in anyway. It’s thankless. The fans then show no understanding and point fingers in a very excessive manner.
I agree Konaté should be used differently and show greater nous however if the coaching staff and VVD (during matches) aren’t pointing this out there’s little hope.
VVD gets a lot of slack yet he’s the captain and the most experienced in the team. He’s often lazy and here in France some commentators have picked up on it as it’s frustrating. You can not have one defender doing the stopping when the other isn’t arsed on cover.
I didn’t like today, It was understandable to go all for it against Burnley but it looked a complete mess by the end on where everyone was playing.
I observed this during the game and had called out. I really didn’t understand what we were trying to achieve with MacAllister so high up the pitch. Everytime Konate/ VVD had the ball, he went closer to their Right CB and waited there hoping the ball would come to him. Why? If he’s part of the attacking 2 mids, play Wirtz there who again made more impact in the little time he played.
https://x.com/asim_lfc/status/1979946002128806307
https://x.com/NOTLFCJ__/status/1979949649587798212
The one I am referring to. And it looked this way many times in the first half.
