Not the right thread, but from what I saw from short highlights, Newcastle went 3 at the back last night, doing what they did as a surprise (Howe had phenomenal preparation against us, setting some traps in the league game and hiding his real intentions for Wembley) against us in the League Cup final, albeit with some obvious personnel changes.
Schar, Thiaw, Burn at CB, Murphy RWB, Livramento LWB, Guimaraes and Tonali central, Willock tucked in on the right, Barnes left, Gordon up top. Gives you the option to be asymmetrical also (which can resemble a 4 at the back in moments), I donāt know if they were last night, but they were against us.
Marseille are even more flexible usually, mixing formations whether theyāre on or off the ball. Their stuff is more difficult to read quickly because of it. But it can look at times a back 3 (more when they build up) or a back 4 (more when they defend).
So often we end up without a midfield both in attack and defence.
This game highlighted ho important it is to always cover that central midfield area at all times. Even if it means a 36 year striker is going there.
Both teams were obeying this rule.
Didnāt know where to post this, because I donāt want everything to go into Arne Slotās thread (which is becoming difficult to follow) and we have other threads for defence, midfield and attack.
We had a good win tonight, turning the result, a few positives, the crowd reacted well to a difficult start and gave the team a push.
I believe Iām a patient fan, or at least more patient than mostā¦
But the first half an hour tonight was for me probably the worst Iāve seen from us this season. I lost it watching that. Couldnāt get a grip of anything, in any phase of the game. The only positive is that we survived it without conceding.
Pinned back, couldnāt beat their man to man approach to get out and they actually looked more dangerous without playing a striker (I wonder what wouldāve happened if they had a few players missing, basically half of their starting team). We were hoofing long balls to nowhere.
I looked at the clock and it was the 13th minute when we had our 10 players in their half for the first time.
I mean what else could a Liverpool v Newcastle game be on a Saturday night other than twists and turns.
In the end a very good win for us, but please letās not repeat those first 30 minutes again.
I genuinely canāt say if they were the worst only because I thought it was just a repeat of some other dismal games we had this season - but I was pulling my hair out watching it, my friends couldnāt believe it either. Literally none of us reacted when Gordon scored because it had been coming.
We could make a lengthy list of tactical aspects that are failing this season but for me itās always been the build-up - centre backs exchange the passes with Alisson, then pass it to a fullback who hoofs it. Huge gaps in midfield still persist, Wirtz has too drop way too deep for my liking to do something, Mac Allister is usually too slow to react, while Gravenberch gets crowded out. Itās February and I still donāt see Slot coming up with a solution - and he still puts our best player at right back.
I donāt want to turn this into another transfer thread but I can see why the club reportedly want another central midfielder - I presume itās someone more mobile and with a better passing range than Mac Allister. Buying an upgrade on him wonāt solve the build-up issues, though, the team is just not compact enough.
Also, while I never for a moment bought into the silly train of thought that Salah was the one to blame for our poor form, I donāt think that having him in the starting XI works for us anymore, not with last nightās system and set of players.
I didnāt think weād go with two wingers from the start yesterday, that being our more offensive option at the moment. Especially when we knew thereās a high chance of Szobo at RB, which meant Wirtz had to be the #10, which meant in certain phases of the game he absolutely had to be the 3rd midfielder.
Though when I looked at our average positions at HT though, Gakpo was positioned very much inside and deeper than Salah (thatās our classic dynamic), as additional help (or attempt to!) to our midfield.
But then I also didnāt know Newcastle would most probably be without Guimaraes (he was on the bench against PSG only as support for the team) and lining up a midfield of Tonali, Willock and Ramsey. Itās funny but in a way, their attack was stylistically reminiscent of our attack from last season (when Diaz would be up top), no striker but 3 players being a pain in the arse with movement and pace.
Itās not like they created a lot, but dear me we just couldnāt get out. 13 minutes to push the game to their half and another 15 or so to get our game going. Luckily I think the crowd reacted more to some of Gordonās (weād love him if he was here, by the way, thatās why his celebration wasnāt that mad) and othersā tackles.
That is much worse to me than when we have a lot of possession in the oppositionās half, struggling to break down, but weāre not pinned back for half an hour and trying not to concede from a corner. As I say, itās great that we survived with the game being in front of our goal so much, with lots of set-pieces, but that was horrible.
Kerkezās pass was good (before that he had a few really poor ones, him on his side and Salah on his side) and Ekitikeās goal was great, even though thatās also too open from Newcastleās point of view (I know they go man to man, but that was not a good version of it), but so we lost so many balls when trying to get out from deep.
Some analysis of our defensive strategy in the first 20 to 30 minutes might be worth while.
Very reminiscent of Bournemouth imo.
Defense backing off too quickly with midfielders not bothered to get back quickly. I mean when you see our centre forward sauntering back quicker one has to admit thereās a problem.
Then when we do have the ball just no meaningful movement. Weāre left with punts up field.
ā¦ and no I wouldnāt like/want Gordon. I saw how he hung his head at 2-1 and thought at least we havenāt players like that.
I know we have to compensate on the opposite side of Salah, especially when our balance isnāt great.
But noticed that Gakpoās been used more on the inside in the last few games, playing almost as the 4th midfielder (or additional #10) in some moments. Shape wise itās not new, but Gakpo is being used somewhat different.
Him and Ekitike interchanging who takes over the left side, depending on the phase of game and where they might end up.
Todayās initial press shape was interesting.
I couldnāt see the whole of the pitch of course, but we pressed with Salah and Ekitike in half spaces, Wirtz and Mac being the main central press, Kerkez actually pushing pretty high in Macās zone and Gakpo taking over a more withdrawn role (from what I saw, more to the left side).
Extrapolating forward, whatever the manager, our strongest line up has to accommodate Ekitike, Wirtz, and a fit Isak.
That has to be a two pronged front three with Frimpong and Kerkez overlapping. Surely this is the way weāll start next season.
Of course, tactics isnāt everything. There was a special energy within the squad, something we havenāt seen since months. Pace of the game, tackles, passion on the sidelines etc. I wonder where that came from.
Not this time, it came from everyone. Look at the way they were harassing the opposition whenever they were without the ball. Kerkez was impressive as @Sportbilly1966 pointed out, but in fact all players were.
I made a similar comment to this in the post match thread. Once Kerkez had shut down their right side Szoboszlai did a great job organising and hassling over the rest of the pitch.
Our defending was very different from normal. Much greater discipline in keeping line distances. Due to hassling rather than jumping out of tackles or desperate lunges. It was more physical and much more like we were used to seeing during Hendoās days. Which is something I have been saying was needed for a long time. Even Gravenberch was doing an effective job at slowing the opposition down.
I still stick by my Szoboszlai shout, which isnāt normal for me as I think he jumps out of tackles too often unless heās at right back, he organised and shoulder barged hassling the opposition all the time. Itās more like I want to see than our usual defensive nonsense.
Of course all the team participated however Kerkez gave the example, Szoboszlai kept it going and if you want more names VVD ensured the midfield wasnāt left in nomanās land by not backing off faster than anyone can run. This last point allows everyone to get involved defensively which seems to be what you saw.
A lot has been said throughout this season about how our signings last summer donāt all fit together in an obvious way. Iām therefore curious as to how Levekeusen set up when Wirtz was playing for them when they switched to a back four as presumably that determines how the rest of the team sets up around him?
How did he fit into that set up they played with, what roles did those around him have and how different is that to what we currently have in our squad?
From what I remember (and thatās going more from Xabiās arrival), when he was one of the two offensive players around a main striker, the other one was more of a āwideā type, compared to Wirtz. Players like Diaby, Adli, Hofmann, Tella, etc. So if the formation in some phases would morph into a back 4, heād be basically the single #10.
