I’m not sure if there’s a point to discussing Jota, one way or another. Whether they sing the song or keep his locker untouched, his death was always going to have an impact on the team. I don’t think being “reminded” of it that way is the reason we’re not dealing with set pieces or are otherwise compact defensively. It doesn’t explain why Kerkez has been struggling, Frimpong has been hurt, Isak has been out of form, and Wirtz is struggling to adapt.
For those players who did know Diogo, it’s really up to them to take the steps necessary to process it. The club and the supporters aren’t going to stop acknowledging Diogo because it hurts their feelings. That’s how WE’RE processing it. They need to find their own way to do the same. Go talk to a therapist.
Jotas death isn’t the reason we are shit at the moment.
Its Slots tactics.
The Anfield Wrap has a week of free shows this week. Listen to a few from Sunday and yesterday where Neil Atkinson basically says perfectly and better than I can.
He makes a great point re Isak - basically saying the club knows what its like getting a player with no pre-season like we did with Chiesa. In all the press conferences last season Slot kept saying no he isn’t ready as no pre-season. Then he would play a bit and get injured and miss a few weeks.
LFC would’ve been better to let Isak have pre-season and start season at Newcastle then go back for him in Jan.
He makes some other great points re the teams tactics and other signings. Go listen.
LFC have just lost their belief. They are fine at 1-0 but awful at 0-1.
In every game LFC have scored first they have won.
In every game that LFC have conceded first…they have lost.
The other bloke on there says that we have signed these players who play a certain way but Slot isnt using them that way so no wonder the teams no working.
An absolute euphemism imo. I’d be harder with the club, and say that we got it totally wrong, at least if the goal was to build from a strong position, and to stay in a dominant position in the league.
But long term, these players still can come good and form a good team. We need patience now.
Atkinson has also spoken at length about the need to remind ourselves that while we’ve moved on from Jota’s death we need to remember it might be feel different from the players.
There isn’t one reason for why we are shit at the minute. I get that it’s a lot easier if there was one reason, but there isn’t. It’s a perfect storm of factors (including Jota) some of our making and some not.
What I think is absolutely true is that we can’t cope with adversity. Going a goal dien on thirty minutes should not be the end of the game, but on Saturday everyone - Liverpool players, Forest players, the fans - knew that when Forest scored it was game over.
Last thing I’ll say on Jota, because for fucks sake Mascot boring it was like four months ago get over it already….
Grief is not a binary thing you just get over within an acceptable timeframe. Every staging post in your life becomes another moment to consider what your lost. Team Christmas party will be coming up soon, and it’s the first one without Diogo. Qualifying for the World Cup - Diogo’s not there. And so on.
Another thought I had was how bullish the squad were at the start of the season. How they were going to go and win it for Diogo. Well, they’ve fucked it up. So how do they feel now? Do they feel like they let down his memory?
When Jota died it was the first time I really missed Klopp. Not for me, or anything like that - for the players. And I think Slot did really well at fronting the club and its grief. But Klopp just carries himself with such charisma and gravitas. If anyone could tell the fans to stop singing the Jota song, or to get rid of the shrines and stuff it would be him.
I understand why FSG felt the need to move towards a head coach rather than a manager, but it’s times like that that you really see the value of that kind of totemic figure.
So thiis is just my perspective. Back when I was in Aus, worked at one of the local uni’s in the F&B. Started off in the main cafeteria, but moved to various departments based on needs and trying to get as many hours as available, so would often do functions, stores, Student Tavern bar work. We had 1 absolute gem lady that worked in one of the cafes got diagnosed with late stage liver and colon cancer. Was not offfered Chemo/Radio as the specialist felt it wouldn’t do anything to help so went straight into palative care and she passed very quickly after.
The day of her funeral, most of the F&B department shut down to allow her colleagues to attend her funeral. I missed it as we had a high level function that required staff to be there so 2 of us missed attending her funeral. Things felt wierd for a couple of weeks for me, others said it took various lengths of time to get things back into the swing of work without feeling some twang of sorrow/mourning/sadness. But a small number of staff refused to let go and constantly would bring her up which would then send others back into bouts of grief. A while after I left and moved to UK, a mate from work moved over to study in Norwich but we would catch up on occassion.
Someone that he was still close to ended up telling him that about 5 years after her death, 2 colleagues insisted on putting up a photo of her and creating a memorial in the main cafeteria which just dug up old memories for a number of the long time staff and several felt that these 2 were helding others back from moving on as they were constantly forcing everyone to always remember this staff member.
Whilst I love the way the club, staf, players and fans have acted since Diogo and Andre’s passing, and the support offered to his family. Things like hanging his shirt in the changing room is something that may be having a negative effect on some players and stopping them from being able to move onto the next stage of grieving - similar to the continual singing of his song by the fans at the 20th minute mark of every game - we risk it becoming a constant reminder of a friend they will never see again. And we have seen a couple of times already this season, the team start well, and then look to fall apart halfway through the first half, is this a coincidence that it happens not long after the fans sing Jotas’ song, or is there something else ha[ppening that couses the team to drop of at that time?
Was just saying this to a friend last night. Different context but I think Arteta had a negative impact last year on Arsenal with all his moaning about injuries and squad depth.
Klopp was brilliant at turning adversity into positive outcomes. Andy Farrell the Irish rugby coach is also great at reframing negative media questions into a ‘bring it on’ attitude.
Time will tell if Slot can bring the players through this period to have increased resilience and character next season
Im not sure if it is about making the ‘hard call’ or if it might be more about asking the right question ‘are we doing the right things to help people move onto the next stage of grief?’
One of the central issues in grievance counselling is to manage when it is right to move on and live again, people get locked into an enduring melancholy, thinking they cannot live happily out of respect for the deceased. Its a little unintentionally self indulgent as likely even the deceased would not want to be a forever funeral.
Yes, I’ve been puzzled by a couple of things he’s said, describing how we’re vulnerable to this or that. Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. A bit like a manager saying his players are tired, or I remember Moyesy after one or two games into the new season at Sunderland, saying they were already in a relegation battle… and guess what? So much of this game is played in the mind, and players don’t need to hear excuses about why they may fail.
Yes, I’m aware of the shrine in the changing room and training ground,
for me, it was a great gesture by the club, it showed how much he was liked by everyone at the club.
perhaps it could be removed at the end of this season?
but i stand by my point, its not the 1st time a team has lost 1 of its players suddenly, or a player has lost a loved one.
And it didnt affect the team, in the way its been suggested that its affecting us
On the 29th Dec 2007 the Motherwell FC Captain Phil O’Donnell collapsed and died on the pitch, the club went onto finish in 3rd place in the league on 60 points.
Motherwell finishing 3rd is a huge achievement to them.
Also Cameroon went on to beat Columbia after Marc-Viien Foe collapsed on the pitch and died later on.
I agree with most that it’s probably a small factor but not a major one. I’ve already made my point that I think it’s a combination of
winning the title- a 10% do in motivation- especially of we concede early, makes a huge difference in this sport.
as champions, opposition teams wanting to make a statement against us
the integration of about 10 players. There is little to no discussion of this and the affect this could be having on the team. Before we went on our barren run, Slot mentioned how he was expecting to start the season poorly based on the changes and was surprised we were getting the results we were**
But to reply to the quoted text above about the Christmas party, what if Jota was sold? Would it still feel weird if he wasn’t at the Christmas party? If he was sold, there would be his absence around the club as well. And I’m aware there’s absence from being elsewhere and absence from death, and they are very different things, but still I don’t put Jota’s death up that highly on the list of why it has gone wrong.
** This is why I am sure Slot will get far more time than people here believe. If our owners reacted and made decisions based on fan pressure like other clubs, then slot would be in trouble. But it is clear any discussion Slot had with the LFC hierarchy prior to season start would have mentioned the expectation that it will be a slow burner as he tries to integrate these players. I’m ok if I’m dead wrong, but I feel there is absolutely no chance he is out this season. I actually don’t think the owners would pull the pin off we stayed next season slowly.
There hasn’t been any dissent inside the ground despite losing to the mancs and being bummed 3-0 by Palace and Forest.
There has been zero fan pressure.
