I dodnt think @Limiescouse was making that point, inst he going at the 20min reminder every game? If so I agree, Jota, his family, needs to be allowed to rest. This is a difficult one to extricate form now its been started.
Someone has to do the hard decision to stop it now…
Are you aware that they have left Jota’s locker untouched for this season? Both at the training ground and at Anfield. Anywhere they go when trying to get into the headspace to perform, a shrine to a now dead former teammate is present. That is why I refered tot he way we were honouring as being distinct from his loss per se.
As I said, I dont think this is the primary factor, but it is additional noise to deal with that can become problematic when things arent going well
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It’s up to the players to decide what they do… was it the factor that was driving them on with those late winners early in the season.
As for Alisson and his father his form hasn’t been particularly bad this season, that’s because people cope differently.
Bradley played soon after his father’s death and was decent until he got injured. I’d want to go out there and play, it was the first thing we did that evening after my brothers mate had been killed. We went out and played football like we would have done if he had been there because that seemed the obvious thing to do. It can add to a natural impact if things go against you. That Palace game really did a number and you do wonder if the late winners had dried up without a switch to the late losing goals we would be in such a position. I would hazard a guess not.
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I think we are pissing into the wind, but I think we have to acknowledge that there is wind to piss into.
I don’t think it is the sole reason, but I think it’s one of the reasons. It may not even be the biggest reason, but for some people it might be? There are going to affect in different ways, to different degrees. Some might be fine, some might not be.
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I’m not sure if there’s a point to discussing Jota, one way or another. Whether they sing the song or keep his locker untouched, his death was always going to have an impact on the team. I don’t think being “reminded” of it that way is the reason we’re not dealing with set pieces or are otherwise compact defensively. It doesn’t explain why Kerkez has been struggling, Frimpong has been hurt, Isak has been out of form, and Wirtz is struggling to adapt.
For those players who did know Diogo, it’s really up to them to take the steps necessary to process it. The club and the supporters aren’t going to stop acknowledging Diogo because it hurts their feelings. That’s how WE’RE processing it. They need to find their own way to do the same. Go talk to a therapist.
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Jotas death isn’t the reason we are shit at the moment.
Its Slots tactics.
The Anfield Wrap has a week of free shows this week. Listen to a few from Sunday and yesterday where Neil Atkinson basically says perfectly and better than I can.
He makes a great point re Isak - basically saying the club knows what its like getting a player with no pre-season like we did with Chiesa. In all the press conferences last season Slot kept saying no he isn’t ready as no pre-season. Then he would play a bit and get injured and miss a few weeks.
LFC would’ve been better to let Isak have pre-season and start season at Newcastle then go back for him in Jan.
He makes some other great points re the teams tactics and other signings. Go listen.
LFC have just lost their belief. They are fine at 1-0 but awful at 0-1.
In every game LFC have scored first they have won.
In every game that LFC have conceded first…they have lost.
The other bloke on there says that we have signed these players who play a certain way but Slot isnt using them that way so no wonder the teams no working.
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An absolute euphemism imo. I’d be harder with the club, and say that we got it totally wrong, at least if the goal was to build from a strong position, and to stay in a dominant position in the league.
But long term, these players still can come good and form a good team. We need patience now.
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Atkinson has also spoken at length about the need to remind ourselves that while we’ve moved on from Jota’s death we need to remember it might be feel different from the players.
There isn’t one reason for why we are shit at the minute. I get that it’s a lot easier if there was one reason, but there isn’t. It’s a perfect storm of factors (including Jota) some of our making and some not.
What I think is absolutely true is that we can’t cope with adversity. Going a goal dien on thirty minutes should not be the end of the game, but on Saturday everyone - Liverpool players, Forest players, the fans - knew that when Forest scored it was game over.
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Last thing I’ll say on Jota, because for fucks sake Mascot boring it was like four months ago get over it already….
Grief is not a binary thing you just get over within an acceptable timeframe. Every staging post in your life becomes another moment to consider what your lost. Team Christmas party will be coming up soon, and it’s the first one without Diogo. Qualifying for the World Cup - Diogo’s not there. And so on.
Another thought I had was how bullish the squad were at the start of the season. How they were going to go and win it for Diogo. Well, they’ve fucked it up. So how do they feel now? Do they feel like they let down his memory?
When Jota died it was the first time I really missed Klopp. Not for me, or anything like that - for the players. And I think Slot did really well at fronting the club and its grief. But Klopp just carries himself with such charisma and gravitas. If anyone could tell the fans to stop singing the Jota song, or to get rid of the shrines and stuff it would be him.
I understand why FSG felt the need to move towards a head coach rather than a manager, but it’s times like that that you really see the value of that kind of totemic figure.
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I have been thinking, I know it’s hard to believe, but what about a self fulfilling prophecy?
Slot has banged on about teams being difficult to beat as when they go one up as they drop into a low block and are difficult to break open.
He says we struggle against teams that go long as they are winning the 2nd ball.
Lastly he talks about conceding from set pieces.
So when a team goes 1 up, we concede a corner or a team is going long, what is in the immediate psyche of the players - negativity
The psychology is wrong, don’t talk about what is our problem but the solution, talk about the successes, create a positive reaction to adversity.
Just stop focussing on the negatives.
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So thiis is just my perspective. Back when I was in Aus, worked at one of the local uni’s in the F&B. Started off in the main cafeteria, but moved to various departments based on needs and trying to get as many hours as available, so would often do functions, stores, Student Tavern bar work. We had 1 absolute gem lady that worked in one of the cafes got diagnosed with late stage liver and colon cancer. Was not offfered Chemo/Radio as the specialist felt it wouldn’t do anything to help so went straight into palative care and she passed very quickly after.
The day of her funeral, most of the F&B department shut down to allow her colleagues to attend her funeral. I missed it as we had a high level function that required staff to be there so 2 of us missed attending her funeral. Things felt wierd for a couple of weeks for me, others said it took various lengths of time to get things back into the swing of work without feeling some twang of sorrow/mourning/sadness. But a small number of staff refused to let go and constantly would bring her up which would then send others back into bouts of grief. A while after I left and moved to UK, a mate from work moved over to study in Norwich but we would catch up on occassion.
Someone that he was still close to ended up telling him that about 5 years after her death, 2 colleagues insisted on putting up a photo of her and creating a memorial in the main cafeteria which just dug up old memories for a number of the long time staff and several felt that these 2 were helding others back from moving on as they were constantly forcing everyone to always remember this staff member.
Whilst I love the way the club, staf, players and fans have acted since Diogo and Andre’s passing, and the support offered to his family. Things like hanging his shirt in the changing room is something that may be having a negative effect on some players and stopping them from being able to move onto the next stage of grieving - similar to the continual singing of his song by the fans at the 20th minute mark of every game - we risk it becoming a constant reminder of a friend they will never see again. And we have seen a couple of times already this season, the team start well, and then look to fall apart halfway through the first half, is this a coincidence that it happens not long after the fans sing Jotas’ song, or is there something else ha[ppening that couses the team to drop of at that time?
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Well said, I think it is appropriate for Tom Werner to make the hard calls for the team to properly move on…
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Was just saying this to a friend last night. Different context but I think Arteta had a negative impact last year on Arsenal with all his moaning about injuries and squad depth.
Klopp was brilliant at turning adversity into positive outcomes. Andy Farrell the Irish rugby coach is also great at reframing negative media questions into a ‘bring it on’ attitude.
Time will tell if Slot can bring the players through this period to have increased resilience and character next season
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Football is an emotion…
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Im not sure if it is about making the ‘hard call’ or if it might be more about asking the right question ‘are we doing the right things to help people move onto the next stage of grief?’
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One of the central issues in grievance counselling is to manage when it is right to move on and live again, people get locked into an enduring melancholy, thinking they cannot live happily out of respect for the deceased. Its a little unintentionally self indulgent as likely even the deceased would not want to be a forever funeral.
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Yes, I’ve been puzzled by a couple of things he’s said, describing how we’re vulnerable to this or that. Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. A bit like a manager saying his players are tired, or I remember Moyesy after one or two games into the new season at Sunderland, saying they were already in a relegation battle… and guess what? So much of this game is played in the mind, and players don’t need to hear excuses about why they may fail.
Obviously you don’t read long posts 