The sort of mental fragility some are describing should not be taken as distinct from the pure footballing failures we’ve been seeing. Outside of pathological situations, confidence and belief typically comes from a demonstration of competency so why would anyone would think the players are going to be capable of feeling “10 foot tall” when they’re collectively playing shit, when people are struggling to pick up what the manager is asking of them or they are doing it but seeing that it is not setting us up for success.
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It’s not good form to erroneously use somebody’s death as an excuse because you’ll do anything but criticise the manager.
Robertson was best mates with Jota, how is that relevant to our 6 new players or the other ones in the squad that weren’t close to him? And everyone appears to think Robertson has been better this season than he was last.
The honest truth is that most of these players will be fully over it by now. Life goes on.
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I explained how I think it’s relevant for the other players. I partly get what you’re saying that life goes on, but can you clarify - are you saying the fans are using it as an excuse or the players are?
I presume he means the players.
Agreed. I think it affects us across at least three ways -
- we lost an experienced player, whose physical style of play may have benefitted us through this rocky period (if he were to remain fit).
- The impact on those who knew him well.
- The impact it had on our pre-season work.
However, the reason we are struggling so badly this season is that we are being hit across so many fronts in addition to this. The loss of Trent and Diaz as @ILLOK says has had a significant impact on our play but also helping expose other weaknesses. The choice and ability of signings we have made, and injuries/ fitness issues are all contributing to this mess we’re in.
So on one hand its impact on the squad and our current situation shouldn’t be diminished, but equally, it isn’t something we can now do much about. The coaching and recruitment staff have to somehow find a way to get these players over the line for the winter window (assuming that there are transfers that can be done to help address some of the areas we are failing at) and more importantly into next.
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Wow. Just fucking wow.
He is having a go at me, mate because he thinks I’m using Jota’s death to shield the manager from criticism.
Which is bullshit as I literally said I don’t know if the manager is the right person to lead the team out of this (I’d have more confidence if it was a tactical issue). And I mentioned Jota alongside four or five other issues which are also affecting the team.
Personally I’d like to know what qualifications @ILLOK has to confidently assert lads should be fully over the sudden death of their close mate four month later.
Robbo didn’t look over it the other night. And even if they broadly feel OK day to day, I question whether it is right that when they need to be 100% focussed in the match they have to look at his vacant space in the dressing left like a shrine, and having to hear his song booming round the stadium twenty minutes into every match.
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Slot did address this in his last press conference:
In response to Jota’s name being sung by fans being a heavy reminder, Slot said: “It’s good for us to be reminded. It’s impossible to measure what it does to the players and what it does to our performances. The last thing I will do is use it as an excuse. We will never use it as an excuse.”
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Martinez said that Portugal are using it (or trying to) as motivation, to win the World Cup for Diogo.
It’s just impossible to know, whatever these people say in public, how different individuals feel.
I’m of the opinion that even if it hits certain individuals who were close, it’s not one of the main reasons why we’ve underperformed so far.
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Have you lost a close friend or loved one and been ‘fully over it’ in four months? Or do you think footballers are a different species of human?
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Yeah I don’t think anyone can know for sure what effect it’s had and I think you’re correct that it is one of many probable factors contributing to us being a bucket of ass this year.
I thought the way it was phrased by this ‘ILLOK’ seemed massively disrespectful to the memory of Jota and his brother and also the grieving of the players and staff, but thanks for explaining the context. I’m not always reading all the comments to be honest.
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Colleagues? A few times yes.
Its not the first time in football, a team member or a players family member has passed away suddenly.
Alison foe example
How long was Alisons performance affected after his father died suddenly?
How often did Ali have to get in the head space to start a game while faced with a shrine to his dead dad?
We’re all just pissing in the wind here, but I would not attribute a significant part of this season’s struggles to it. Not zero, but not a primary factor. But as a secondary factor, the sort of thing that gets in the way when you’re struggling to work through a different problem, it is surely there. And I think a lot of that comes not from his passing per se, but from the way we chose to honour him. I dont think that has helped. But maybe that isnt even the right metric to judge any of this by? Maybe honouring him in the right way is more important than the results (I dont agree with that FWIW)?
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I’m sure Alison didnt need a shrine to remember his fathers passing
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I dodnt think @Limiescouse was making that point, inst he going at the 20min reminder every game? If so I agree, Jota, his family, needs to be allowed to rest. This is a difficult one to extricate form now its been started.
Someone has to do the hard decision to stop it now…
Are you aware that they have left Jota’s locker untouched for this season? Both at the training ground and at Anfield. Anywhere they go when trying to get into the headspace to perform, a shrine to a now dead former teammate is present. That is why I refered tot he way we were honouring as being distinct from his loss per se.
As I said, I dont think this is the primary factor, but it is additional noise to deal with that can become problematic when things arent going well
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It’s up to the players to decide what they do… was it the factor that was driving them on with those late winners early in the season.
As for Alisson and his father his form hasn’t been particularly bad this season, that’s because people cope differently.
Bradley played soon after his father’s death and was decent until he got injured. I’d want to go out there and play, it was the first thing we did that evening after my brothers mate had been killed. We went out and played football like we would have done if he had been there because that seemed the obvious thing to do. It can add to a natural impact if things go against you. That Palace game really did a number and you do wonder if the late winners had dried up without a switch to the late losing goals we would be in such a position. I would hazard a guess not.
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I think we are pissing into the wind, but I think we have to acknowledge that there is wind to piss into.
I don’t think it is the sole reason, but I think it’s one of the reasons. It may not even be the biggest reason, but for some people it might be? There are going to affect in different ways, to different degrees. Some might be fine, some might not be.
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