Arne Slot - Head Coach

The Albert
4023

We have to make decisions sometimes, does Liverpool exist to compete and win or to worry about what the outside world thinks if we’re a sacking club or not?

We had 22 managers/head coaches in our history, even if in modern times things change in football much more than way in the past.

Potentially sacking Slot will not suddenly mean we’re “Chelsea”. I totally disagree with Carra holding onto the fact that we’ve never sacked a title winning manager. So what, we should keep that tradition by default? We have to make decisions when we are sure it’s the right thing to do.

The club is already in the phase of showing patience, but it might have it’s limit this season.

2 Likes
4024

Yup. We were wayyy too soft against Forest. Only Milos got stuck in when he could.

Tactics is a huge issue.

But mentality and a complete absence of bloody-mindedness is just as big an issue.

4025

I’m sure Wirtz didn’t get the instruction to go wide left and hug the touchline at HT and then suddenly allowed to leave that zone, come inside to combine. Same goes for Szobo, who has started inside right in the last two games because of Gomez at RB.

When Wirtz is used off the sides, in possession, it’s mostly with the same mission to end up in similar zones. Whether that or our collective game works, depends on us and also the opposition.

1 Like
4026

PSG were nowhere near as bad in these stages as we’ve been so far this season.

3 Likes
4027

They might have been if their domestic league wasn’t a fucking doddle.

1 Like
4028

True, compared to this, anything organized and successful is better of course.

But that era also had it’s need for evolution in some phases of the game (without losing it’s principles), hence why Klopp was trying different things to make us better in possession.

Different players, giving Lijnders the role he had, etc. Let’s not forget we came a few goals short of a quadruple in 21/22.

Off the ball, we’re miles behind that era. On the ball, we’re also behind, but even that team or any team cannot play rapid and vertical in every single sequence. It’s not FIFA.

I think Klopp wouldn’t have been against some of the individuals (as isolated cases, not as in replacing the ones we had) we’ve signed this summer.

Klopp said his priority was to actually keep Coutinho (who was playing a little bit inside left and a little bit as the most offensive #8 in the first part of 17/18) and I trust him.

We’ve signed quality individuals, but money spent and individual quality is no guarantee of immediate collective cohesion. As we’ve seen with many examples at other clubs. It can take time and sometimes a change of coaching or additional in/out repairs in the transfer window.

1 Like
4029

Yes, it’s difficult not to imagine what (some of) the players are feeling right now when they look at the manager, or even each other. Equally, what AS is seeing in some of them.

Even when things started slipping in the spring, there was still enough to get them over the line, and with the early season results this time, but since that first league defeat it’s felt as though so much belief has drained from the players, old and new, and even the few decent levels shown (eg RM) cannot be sustained.

We wnt through some rough patches under Klopp, but there was always the belief that he would turn things around eventually. He was always able to get them playing well again. Plus, of course, he never said some of the stuff that Slot has come out with, almost defeatist, a bit like Hodgson at times, as though we should expect to get beaten.

Anyway, I’m supporting the manager while he’s still manager and I hope he can begin to truly inspire his players, restore their confidence, and we see things improve really soon.

1 Like
4030

Which they complicated for themselves and lost a few times already…

They were good, but became even better.

We are not good.

4031
1 Like
4032

Yeah.

Sunderland are definitely not ultra defensive all the time. Anyone who watches football see that they do a combination, depending on which phase it is.

They can absolutely defend as deep as possible with 10 outfield players in one very compact block. Sometimes they play 5 at the back, sometimes 4, sometimes they mix the two. But they can also push and press when they pick their moments in the opponent’s half. Dyche’s Burnley used to combine the two as well.

But it’s true that last night Sunderland were not only tough to crack (although we had 23 shots on goal, but having only 4 on target is poor from us), but had spells playing out from the back which managed to buy them time and calmness.

Our biggest issue so far this season is that we’re easy to play against.

4033

I could have played my way out of our ‘press’ last night by myself. It was a fucking bad joke.

1 Like
4034

So we can’t have a table unless it’s from the whole season to date?

These options that let you select by form exists for a reason…our form the last 9 games is that of a relegation side, sometimes you have to see it to believe it.

4035

I genuinely don’t think we were trying to press - especially in the first half. To me it looked like (as it did with West Ham) a conscious decision to not commit men forward. I totally understand that. When we’ve been as bad as we’ve been you have to prioritise stability.

It was when we started to up the pressure in the second half that the gaps started to appear.

2 Likes
4036

I don’t see a coherent strategy, just because a lineup worked in one game that doesn’t mean it carries over to the next. To me it just looks like he’s throwing it out there and hoping it works again. Szoboszlai as a winger, for example, worked OK against West Ham so lets just do that again. But is part of a long term vision, does he see Szoboszlai or a similar player on that right side in future or is it just scraping the barrel and trying to get from game-to-game?

I do have some sympathy, for all the talk of “he spent £450m” I think its fairly obvious that these signings were not his choice and that he doesn’t have a clear idea in place of how to use them. Kind of reminds me of Moneyball when Billy Beane tells Art Howe “I didn’t put this team together for you” and Howe replies “No shit”.

Part of me actually wonders if Hughes and Edwards had a future coach in mind when making these signings but I’m also probably getting too far down the theoretical side there.

3 Likes
4037

I think Arne said in his pre match press conference or some other interview that he was playing Dom there temporarily and preferred to have him in the middle. Also said something along the lines that he didnt expect him to in the wide role in February, which may suggest signings have been lined up for winter window.

1 Like
4038

In which case, did they regard Slot as a caretaker when they hired him?

2 Likes
4039

Probably not, which would kill most of my theory.

2 Likes
4040

I don’t think that we were trying to press. It’s been so bad and so dangerous (for us), that we seem to have abandoned pressing altogether. We just stand off and try to stay compact, which has somewhat worked.

I was thinking that Edwards/Hughes and Slot had a bigger plan and this summer was only the beginning. Surely, they are not discovering just now that fitting Wirtz and Isak and Ekitike(?) in the same team is almost impossible with the current squad.

4041

I can’t possibly see that to be honest.

4042

There’s lineup, game instructions and the aspect of a different opponent.

A same lineup doesn’t mean that all players had the same instructions against Sunderland as they did against West Ham. It’s possible that we believed different aspects we had against West Ham would be useful against Sunderland (who are currently a better team than West Ham). Right now, it’s more about us trying to recover some of our phases.

If he keeps a same 11 or most players (like 10 last night) after a win and/or a positive performance, I don’t necessarily see the issue. Last night my main wish was to keep the box-shape midfield structure in possession, which means leaving one winger out. Then the rest: see if Gomez can go again, I personally prefer Robbo over Kerkez and decide between Isak (scored against West Ham, but didn’t play really well) and Ekitike.

For me, random moves are more ones like playing Frimpong (RW) ahead of Szoboszlai (RB) in Istanbul, forcing Isak in some games from the start, etc. There were more that I didn’t like.

He said a few days ago that Szobo is a midfielder and will be in the future, not a defender or a winger (not that we expect him to play like Salah when he’s on the right, plus he played a lot inside right in Leipzig’s 4-2-2-2).

Right now, what we do in the short term and what does that mean for the long term doesn’t really matter. Am I afraid that we are trying to turn Szobo into a defender if he’s been used at RB this season? No, I’m not. In general though, is football a game of countless examples of players’ positions being changed over their career? Yes, it is.

Chelsea are playing a lot of games with Gusto at RB and James in midfield. Arsenal are playing and winning with Merino as a false #9 (not their first false #9). Bayern are playing Laimer at RB/LB and in midfield, Real are using Valverde at CM/RB/RW.

It’s nothing new in football, but there are moves that make more or less sense and then have more success or not as a result.

And fanbases get more nervous in general about players not being in their positions when things aren’t working well and you get one part of it that screams for us to decide on something and stick with it and others who would probably lose themselves in the amount of changing they’d do.

In reality, you have to do a combination of the two, also knowing that personnel changes are only one aspect of changing a football team. This shit will not be solved only by changing player A with player B. If on a given day it’s Szobo as the inside winger (Gomez at RB was part of the reason why), Wirtz or Jones.

And no, I don’t think Slot was outside the decision to sign these players.

And no, I don’t think these players were signed with a future coach in mind. Why would they? Also being always aware that players can easily outlast coaches, so Edwards/Hughes/Slot don’t only sign players for Slot and his coaching staff, but for Liverpool.