Assisted dying… should it be allowed?

[sandsoftime]

Brings to mind that old saying…
" Where there is a will… There is a relative "
The option of being worth more dead than alive, would most certainly need taking off the table… When people become vulnerable in so many ways, they need protecting from themselves, and most certainly, any brainwashing peer pressure

[HugoTheHorrible]

As long as the person involved has an input, and is dying a bloody awful death, anyway,why not.
I have just watched a friend dying from cancer, wasted away to nothing ,needed help with everything, he would not have wanted that end,Of that I’m certain.
I know damn well in that position I would want out with some kind of dignity.
That couple in Holland had a great idea, why should any one, especially an outsider have the right to say stuff you,just waste away.

[Sportbilly1966]

I watched my father, who worked down the pit and was a strong willed man in both body and mind, waste away firstly through Parkinsons and then with senile dementia, he was bed ridden, had to wear nappies, be fed and couldn’t communicate.

It was heartbreaking and I remember after he passed discussing it with my older Brother and Sister and all of us was of the mind that if we could have we would have ended it for him. Unfortunately, we would have been locked up for it.

I am like Quicksand I wouldn’t want to be a burden on my family, just would want to end it peacefully and be able to say goodbye properly to those that I love.

[redalways]

@RedOverTheWater

Still, in good faith I would maintain that it is not the responsibility of society to kill vulnerable people. Once society assumes that role, when does the right to die become the obligation to die?

Hold up, when did it become the “responsibility of society”? Isn’t the argument around assisted dying being that it takes away the responsibility of society to decide if a person should live or die, and let the person decide that for themselves?

[Quicksand]

@RedSeven

While most discussions on this seem to be around terminal, as in incurable cancer with 6 mths to live, what about those who have been diagnosed with Alzheimers or MND. Do those people not deserve to go with dignity?

I agree, 100%.
People whose dignity, personality and freedom of movement is stolen by illness.
Medicines aim is to cure. If it cannot cure, then lets have the ability to cease the pain, curb the slow and humiliating exit.

[Quicksand]

@redalways

@RedOverTheWater

Still, in good faith I would maintain that it is not the responsibility of society to kill vulnerable people. Once society assumes that role, when does the right to die become the obligation to die?

Hold up, when did it become the “responsibility of society”? Isn’t the argument around assisted dying being that it takes away the responsibility of society to decide if a person should live or die, and let the person decide that for themselves?

I would extend that…
It is the persons responsibility…
And in some cases, as in the dreadful situation described by @Sportbilly1966 above…the loved ones should be allowed to make a decision.

[redalways]

@Quicksand

And in some cases, as in the dreadful situation described by @Sportbilly1966 above…the loved ones should be allowed to make a decision.

See I’m a little more wary about that. I feel as though living wills ought to be more common. I’m very cautious about decisions about a person’s life that aren’t made by themselves.

[mackie]

@RedOverTheWater

Still, in good faith I would maintain that it is not the responsibility of society to kill vulnerable people. Once society assumes that role, when does the right to die become the obligation to die? Life is valuable and we should strive to protect it, not actively end it.

I completely agree that everything should be done to make someone as comfortable as possible. That’s the business of palliative care, to give the best quality of life possible in the context of serious illness. That seems quite right, but I would draw a clear line at killing someone.

There’s actually the reverse debate, which is a topic as morally fraught.
To what extent should we go to try keep someone alive?

I have a doctor in the family which has been telling me it’s a regular occurrence to have a family who doesn’t want to let go, prolonging unnecessarily the suffering of a family member who has no hope to get back any quality of life.

In both directions, there will be mistakes and abuses. If you add the prism of religion, then it becomes even more complex.

[redalways]

@mackie

If you add the prism of religion

This reminds me of the men in Middle-Earth, who once had the ability (prior to the events of the Lord of the Rings) to choose their time of departure, but in their vanity kept clinging on to life until they were wasted mentally and physically, gradually losing their ability to choose the time of going.

I think it’s a nice cautionary tale.

[Quicksand]

I agree.
Agreement thats made while the person is able.
But with nominated family or loved ones able to action the decision.

[redalways]

@Quicksand

But with nominated family or loved ones able to action the decision.

Isn’t the whole point of the living will that the person themselves can make the decision that will be respected when the points are triggered, rather than loved ones or family having any role in it?

Or have I misunderstood the concept?

[Hope.in.your.heart]

@RedOverTheWater

Anyhow, I don’t want to be the main one to argue against assisted dying on the forum. It’s not something I have given a huge amount of thought to, but it seems problematic to me, in the ways I’ve mentioned in my posts above.

Nothing but respect for others of a different viewpoint, as they weigh a difficult issue and come to a different conclusion to me.

I appreciate your balanced position on this, even if we disagree. I think that assisted dying would be a progress for society. I’ll give you an example: the father of one of my friends wanted to exit life because it was becoming too difficult for him. He was well over ninety, his wife struggled to take care of him and he was becoming a heavy burden for everyone, including himself. The following step was inevitable, which was to send him to a home for elderly people, but he didn’t want this at all. So, he applied for assisted dying, but was denied because he hadn’t any terminal disease, just all kinds of minor diseases and pains due to his old age.

So, one night, he went out in secret, walked towards a bridge, and threw himself off it.

Wouldn’t it have been better for everyone if he could have exited his life in a more civilized manner, with his family around him?

[Sportbilly1966]

So so sad.

[HugoTheHorrible]

I too,have a concern about others making that decision,have seen a couple of situations where the driver may not be in the persons best interest.
However,if the person has made it known what his/her wishes are,there will be someone,failing that draw up a document explaining just what their wishes are.

[Quicksand]

@redalways

@Quicksand

But with nominated family or loved ones able to action the decision.

Isn’t the whole point of the living will that the person themselves can make the decision that will be respected when the points are triggered, rather than loved ones or family having any role in it?

Or have I misunderstood the concept?

Yes
But there may be a nominated person who has the function of triggering the decision.
The right of the person isn’t compromised.

[HugoTheHorrible]

That is appalling,feel so sorry that the system is so hidebound,sometimes.

[Maria]

This so tragic. How does carer’s system work there? My mum had carer coming twice a day during the week when i was at work, even though she was living with me. It was a great help. In the UK, if you live alone or need assistance, you can get carers coming 4x a day and sometimes they come to give the person company.

[RedOverTheWater]

Assuming the country is one where assisted dying is not legal, the role of society, via the care structures in place, is to care for human life, not pass laws to end it.

[RedOverTheWater]

This is a great question, and at that point we place a lot of trust in the medical profession. If someone is dying naturally, my view is they should of course be allowed to go. It is their time. The role of the medical community at that point is to make their passing as comfortable as possible.

[RedOverTheWater]

It’s a tragic example and I’m so sorry to hear about it.

In this instance I would hope for a third option, which is better care and support for the person in his 90s, so he doesn’t feel as though his only two choices are to apply for assisted death, or throw himself off a bridge.

The situation you described seems so sad, and I have compassion for an old man who felt that was his only option.

I have nothing but compassion and respect for anyone in here who has personally dealt with these issues with a loved one.