See my comment in the US Politics thread. Denying what very obviously happened, so you can accuse the libs of being unhinged, is part of the game. It is arguably the most rewarding part of the game
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Feels like it’s perhaps time to revisit @cynicaloldgit’s thread…
And personally pushed to have big twitter accounts reactivated that had previously been banned over anti Semitism, and has since spent years boosting those messages.
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But remember, it’s the poor right-wingers who are the victims of censorship.
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Independently of that somewhat void discussion around his ‘salute’, it’s absolutely beyond me how you can continue to defend that poor excuse of a human being. This is the man who has recently said that the AfD, an extreme-right party with an important part of members who don’t hide their neo-nazism, is ‘the only party who can save Germany’. When will people wake up, ffs.
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Insert series of fallacies and non-sequiturs that don’t remotely address the issues being raised.
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And a random Terry Pratchett-ism for a sprinkling of second hand wit, with the additional benefit that the author is now too dead to give his actual opinion on the matter.
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The AfD pull similar stunts. Last year they held a conference that “just happened” to be on Hitler’s birthday and was “coincidentally” next to the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp.
“Ohh, look at us, all edgy and pushing boundaries.”
Maybe, rather than getting upset about it, the authorities should have played along and sent the British Army in to hang them en masse.
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What Elon Musk was doing with his hands is one of the least interesting aspects of that Inauguration Day
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At times, I belive banning the NSDAP was a mistake. Though I understand why it had to be done. But if it still existed, as a villified party only for the visibly cruel, it would be easier at times. But banning it was politically and ethically necessary .
Banning the nazi regalia however, I have always been against in principle, due to it’s infringement on Free Speech. Had it been up to me, they would be allowed to wear their swastikas with pride and worship below busts of Hitler. While it would be truly fucking disgusting, it would also be positive in that there would be no need for the fake codes and bullshit these groups use today to hide under. If anything, it would probably have contributed to stifle their growth.
I like to know who they are. And I like to be able to point to them.
This closet sanitised Nazi cowardly bullshit, I hate it so much. Sometimes I think: Bring back the Swastika, the runes and the Totenkopf ! By banning it all in Germany, they wear fake shitty sanitised masks. And so many people are fucking stupid and can actually be swayed by them when they wear those modern masks.
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But I don’t know. My thoughts are not truly developed on the subject, but I think of this from time to time. But there are pros and cons. Free Speech is a an incredibly important principle though. But would it have been actually sociopolitically advantageous if they were free to use the old regalia and symbols ? I don’t know. It would provoke many for sure. But would it have been sociopolitically better even so ? They would not be able to rehabilitate it and so if they were shackled to the old symbols, I think that would be rather advantageous tbh. But maybe not. I am not 100 % sure. But I think so.
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At least I will have some popcorn ready for the coming days, since Tore Tvedt, Norway’s most famous living nazi and the founder of the neo-nazi movement Vigrid, commented upon the Musk greeting on his nazi site:
*Elon Musk lagde bølger under feiringen av Donald Trump sin innsettelse som president i USA med sin armbevegelse hvor han legger hånden på brystet og feier den ut med åpen hånd som en form for kopi av den Romerske Keiserhilsenen. *
Problemet med denne måten å uttrykke optimisme, samhold og fellesskap med tilhørerne på er gått over i histoien som Nazihilsen etter at Hitler brukte en variant av den.
Så får vi se om det er baller nok hos Musk og Trump eller om de beklager og bortforklarer. som woke puzzyer.
(Translation: Elon Musk made waves during the celebration of Donald Trump’s inauguration as President of the United States with his arm gesture where he places his hand on his chest and sweeps it out with an open hand as a kind of copy of the Roman Emperor Salute.
The problem with this way of expressing optimism, unity and community with the audience, is that is has passed into history as the Nazi salute after Hitler used a variant of it.
So we’ll see if Musk and Trump have enough balls or if they apologize and explain away, as woke puzzies.)
Personally, I am looking forward to calling Musk and Trump Woke Puzzies.
What a weird unfortunate coincidence.
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And also a rather amusing sentence since the author admires Hitler.
For years Germany has been used as a really interesting counter example to see the different attitudes in the respective countries to the Nazis and Confederacy. In the US the war ended and Confederates were by and large invited back into respectable society, even US government. Things like Jim Crowe, the lost cause myth, and the romanticszation of the Confederacy were a direct consequence of this focus on appeasement and reconciliation. You could draw a straight line to our ongoing race issues to the reality that the civil war was allowed to carry on in the hearts of half a country.
It’s odd that despite the German response being seen as far more effective we are now largely converging. I wonder how much influence the homogenization of culture via the internet and SM has contributed to this with people in europe exposed to these american attitudes?
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The German far right (and right, to a degree) has been copying US far right for years. I’m often pointing this out to German friends, slight delay and boom, there are the same talking points and strategies. It’s all very familiar if you follow the US discourse. Though there is some regional/national flavour mixed into as well of course. And a good bit of Russian topping.
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I think it is hard to say.
I would like to read proper academic research on this tbh.
I suspect the repression on nazi symbols aids neo fascists myself, since it forces them to wear more socially acceptable masks and use social codes. After a while, many of these codes become socially acceptable in many instances.
But I am far from sure as to what opinion I should have. I have thought about this for years, but I am not at all sure and I have not done proper research of course. It’s a difficult issue. Pros and Cons and perhaps also cases. It is not certain that one should extrapolite directly from the US to the German scenario for instance.
In my view, German (and European in general) nazis and fascists share more in common with Russian fascists and nazis than American neo nazis culturally speaking. They use the same language, the same thoughts, the same regalia usually.
In the US, the focus from the Ultra Right are more on segregation, racism and the old conflict between black, coloured and those who view themselves as white (in many cases these people are not what European nazis would call white, which is funny but besides the point). In Europe it is usually a bit more Old School (but not always) with extremely strong sentiments of Anti Semitism and to a lesser degree, also Arabs. Black people they don’t respect and ideally want the fuck out of here, but it’s not a priority for them. They want to combat the Jewish Cabal and the sand people from the Middle East and they dream of empire and war. Blood and Soil (yes, blood and soil also in the US, but to a slightly lesser degree since the US is not truly a proper Nation State).
But it’s a very interesting subject. And a tough one.
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