This is truly horrible… 
RIP to the poor souls…
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Dear Magnus, please understand that it’s not a jab at you. I feel sometimes your perspective is too narrow and non-inclusive. Let’s have a quick review of ISI/Pakistan Military,
- Since the 1950s they are trained, funded, and armed by USA & UK.
- The primary objective was to create a henchman to counter the Indo-Soviet influence.
- They orchestrated four military coups since late 1950s
- They orchestrated a massacre in Bangladesh killing fucking three million people.
- They committed innumerable atrocities against Baluch and Sindh nationalists.
- They fucking bombed an Eid prayer in Baluchistan.
Despite all these they (USA! UK! West!) cuddled and kissed ISI/Junta during the Afghan-Soviet war. They wanted the devil they created because they wanted to raise hell in Afghanistan. Regan, Thatcher and all other bus***ds knew what ISI/Junta was and they knew what’s going to happen.
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I think that the US intervention just pushed the situation into the tribes being completely ousted from the equation because the US like dealing with big powerful political (and hence military eventually) forces.
Instead of investing in commercial outlets (other than opium and cannabis) they played a power game.
From what I saw of French forces in Afganistan the village and tribal leaders were just playing civil war capitulation (in that I mean which ever force was in their region of influence they gave allegence to an lip service). In other words the US just created a situation where the the ‘old’ power structures where distroyed. They prefered to ‘negociate’ with the Talibans as they were a political force (much greater than the ‘tribes’).
Very incomplete I know but there’s many aspects that changed and aren’t even discussed.
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In my view there were some disastrous and shortsighted strategies regarding Afghanistan over last four decades 
- Indiscriminately arming and funding the so-called Mujahideen.
- Taking a backseat when those Mujahideen were killing each other.
- Invading Afghanistan, again.
- Keep propping up those inept, corrupt puppet-regimes.
- Never bothering to take Iran into the fold.
There were so many opportunities to take a saner course in last four decades, nobody bothered. 
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In a sense, the Afghan people themselves have let this happen, no? There was simply no will to resist the Taliban or support the government. The Afghan Army, such as it was, literally gave up without a fight. There is only so much outside forces can do and when the will to resist such a takeover is completely lacking in not just the government and its security forces but in the people themselves then this would have happened 5 years ago or it would have happened a decade from now.
Alot is being made about the world giving up on the Afghan people but the Afghan people themselves are going to have to come to terms with their… passivity, one could say. Everyone is bemoaning their soon to be lack of freedoms and their former government was chronically corrupt and inept but how many actually stood up to retain them.
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None of us can even begin to imagine what it must be like to be born in Afghanistan
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As @Bekloppt says, how on earth can there be a sense of exceptionalism unless you were born in a comparable situation and then your community took the bull by the horns and built something out of nothing.
I find these kinds of statements very odd. If you’re born in a developed country then you’ve simply inherited a stable country with assets and security. You haven’t earned that yourself.
In 1939-1942, Nazi Germany swept through the low countries and Czechoslovakia and France. Were the citizens of those countries asking for it?
The only thing I can imagine it must be like to live in Afghanistan as an average civilian, not affiliated to the Taliban, is the inability to trust anyone. The constant fear of being betrayed to the Taliban for even the most minor ‘indiscretion’ must be paralysing for most.
I can imagine that being most people’s daily reality, but I can’t possibly imagine what it must be like to live it.
I think I’d most likely look to flee rather than fight, as weak as that may appear. I’ve often felt that it might be better for a defined caliphate to exist, where those advocating a more radical interpretation of Islam can live and practice without interference, providing they didn’t seek to destabilise others.
A defined nation state, with defined borders, somewhere less nebulous, more easily targeted with sanctions etc if necessary.
The West would need to be much more ready to take in refugees and assist those wishing to get out. The UN needs to play a major role here otherwise it may as well be disbanded.
The previous Taliban regime harboured Bin Laden and his cohorts and there’s no indication that this one will be any different. What happens after the next 9/11?
It’s noteworthy that the Chinese are quick to buddy up to the Taliban and they may use them to destabilise the west. Strange bedfellows in light of China’s policy towards their own Muslim communities, but they could be useful to each other.
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I wouldn’t say that. I rather see it as a sign of how desperate they were to leave the country before getting caught by the Talibans.
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I know, it looks ridiculous when seated on a chair in front of a desktop, but to do this, you have to get to a serious level of desperation. Besides, it may be possible that they saw possible action by the Talibans as not only death handed to them, but a slow, painful one as well…
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My perspective is not narrow. My post was and by design.
I cannot write a book here. Not even a proper chapter. You seem to think that I am clueless of geopolitical history and that disappoints me .
How you read my posts and took from it that I thought the Western approach to Pakistan was prudent, wise or ethical I can’t even fathom.
It is so unreasonable of you to expect me to write a chapter of past events, The Cold War, when we are dealing with a specific situation of military and social collapse of Afghanistan and the consequences of NATO withdrawal is too broad.
True, I blamed Pakistan. Why ? Because in media picture what I wrote about Pakistans role is not mentioned by tabloids or even many serious papers. I specifically criticised the West’s role of disregarding Pakistan in this conflict and not subjecting it to enough pressure.
The Cold War is a massively large academic subject that I can hardly (!) be expected to include in this specific scenario as it would derail and touch upon a great many matters and leave Afganistan behind as an afterthought. I have written thesises about the Cold War, I refuse to spend time debating which states the West and the East propped up, yes completely immorally and unethically, during that Era since it is a subject (and a damn large one at that) of it’s own.
Is what is happening in Afghanistan really so unimportant that we must derail it ? Or were you looking for me blaming the West chiefly? I can do that. I certainly have the knowledge to batter righteously the US and UK.But I won’t enter the Cold War arena now. Why ? Because it also involved the USSR and China and would take me forever and I would end up not talking much about Afganistan at all as everything during the Cold War must be viewed through a very specific geopolitical prism of Cost-Benefit and the greater threat of another world war. It is a massive subject, Iftikhar. The thesis I wrote about the Cold War personally was with Vietnam as the focus in context of the Cold War. That was a long paper in my Master studies in history when I had a subject called the Cold War as one of the preparatory history subjects . This is a forum, Iftikhar. I cannot be expected to venture into such a massive subject just now when there is a current more specific situation and I hope you understand and respect that.
And now I dont have more time and must come back to this later.
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When did I say that???
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You didn’t
Uzbekistan has shot down an Afghan military airplane seeking refuge in its country. The tragedy unfolds in new ways and this is just the early days of what will be a horrific humanitarian disaster.
2 persons are reported to be in an Uzbek hospital and so apparently survived. It is difficult to begin to just talk about how desperate Afghans are right now. The scenes I see are soul shattering.
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- I feel sometimes your perspective is too narrow and non-inclusive. *
Sorry then. I misread this to be that I lacked perspective. That was a misunderstanding and I apologice for that.
Not really important anyway, except I wasted a lot of time responding to you to explain why I did not think including Cold War events was helpful or something I would like to do. Hope you read it, or I wasted 25 min.
Might have been lost on others but not me. I’m following. 
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I read it also Magnus… TWICE.!!! TWICE.!!! as Fraudiola would say…
It was very good and thought provoking… Keep up the good work
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That’s the point I was trying to make with my earlier post. I’m not trying to belittle the Afghan people in any way, I’ve actually always admired their country from a military perspective in how they have outlived, outlasted and outfought superior forces for centuries. It is of course, easy to judge from afar, but that spirit is surely prevalent throughout a large cross section of the population so I find it saddening, and bewildering, that such desperation did not forge itself into the iron will to resist that the Afghan people are known for. The only conclusion that I can draw, rightly or wrongly, is that the majority of the population after years of corruption and poor governance is aligned with the Taliban in one way or another if not necessarily supporting the regime.
I can see and understand why you think that. I don’t think that is correct (that this is what the majority wants) but I can’t prove it now so I think we’ll just have to disagree.
A tragedy in any case.
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